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Since his end goal might not be placements, I wouldnβt suggest him to ruin his mental health in my university atleast, canβt speak for other NLUs.
Better faculty + infra + exposure = same students reads like a badly balanced equation.
You are making the claim without substantiating how Harvard or NLS as an institution βimproves the quality of a studentβ when compared to JGLS or what you call βtier 2 NLUsβ. I know a lot of people who went to Harvard and CLC and I know a lot of people from the latter, who are better legal professionals than the former.
Yale LLMs on the other hand, like most LLMs, are much easier to get into, simply because LLMs are geared towards international students and are therefore money shops. I will admit it is not as easy as UK universities (which let's be honest, would take any half decent student willing to pay the full tuition), but I'd much rather have you clarify this before you pass your friend off as an example in any respect.
I am anti equality gang, I need genetically superior kids if I am sending them to jgls. Same student gang can go and drown in the olympic style swimming pool they boast of.
Otherwise, some butthurt grads are still lamenting over the fact that they couldn't make it to an NLU.
Another option is to do your LLB or JD from abroad. Many have done this, e.g. Rishabh Shroff (son of Cyril Shroff), Akhil Sibal (son of Kapil Sibal) etc etc. Thee days NLUs have a conversion course, so you can do that, if you want an NLU tag (i.e. LLB abroad + additional study at an NLU to quality in India).
Trust me, this is a better route. NLUs may be helpful for those from middle-class backgrounds who lack contacts and access, but you don't fall in that category. Don't board a train when you have a place ticket!
You have kids of ministers, lawyers, judges etc in those merit lists. If your friend graduated between 2015-2020, their clat score will be out there in the website of Jagran /Lawctopus/ Nalsar etc.
CLAT became opaque after around 2014. So there on, you will probably never get to know about the results. Such a shame they made the merit list private. It makes the system so opaque.
@OP - how would anyone know who your dad is unless you tell them? Even if they were to guess based on last name, you could always feign ignorance and claim not to know the person. But, something tells me you are itching to tell everyone 'mera baap kaun hai.' Dilli se hain aap?
See Alma Matters on Netflix: that's the crowd at NLUs.
And the more liberal environment has actually helped students grow. A 10 year old university is being ranked in the top 5 and in the QS. Students have their own startups, law firms and even collaborative ventures with students of international affair, public policy and PGDM programme. They are getting scholarships are being admitted to top universities worldwide. We literally have celebrity professors (national and internationally) teaching us who recommend students for some of the most unique internship and job opportunities.
Stop with your negative PR bud, why do NLU kids like so much of unpaid labour? What is your criteria of βgetting betterβ? Let the kid decide on his own. Be honest and tell him about everything that is better. If he got the money, heβd go for it.
Quote: Tbh you need a rebirth because you are still stuck in colonial era βgora hai to better hogaβ. You need to explain why? Instead of asking people to get their brains checked, maybe explain how does Harvard as an institution produce better law graduates than top Indian law schools. I am not talking about where people end up, because itβs one of the oldest law schools with strongest alumni group, it gets some of the best talent in the world. But how would it have been different if the same talent came to a university which provides nearly equal opportunities? And if you believe that harvard provides more international exposure to kids, then youβre practically saying that Jindal is better than NLS because more collaborations with international universities? You need explain how Harvard as an institution (an not a brand) contributes in creating a better lawyer when compared to someone graduating from a lets say university placed on 100th rank in QS rankings.
Also I am not comparing Jindal with Harvard, someone else which canβt organise a proper exam is anyways busy claiming itself as the Harvard of the east. There are other obvious benefits with Harvard but what I am rebutting here is that how can institution beyond a point create students with unequal lawyering capacity?
Exactly, I agree thereβs no difference in quality between a student who has graduated from a top NLU, and one who has graduated from JGLS. But you insisted that thereβs a possibility, i am asking how? Now why did the Harvard thing seem so absurd to you? Itβs because Harvard facilitates more than what other universities may do. There library is better and the opportunities they float are better. Which is exactly my point about Jindal, when youβre paying more money, youβre paying it for stuff that you wonβt get in an NLU. Itβs okay man, I am not judging NLUs, they literally fund themselves and get nothing from the state and they have achieved a lot with less funds. JGLS has more funds and it provides more academic and subsidiary services for the money that you pay. Harvard doesnβt magically make you a βbetter lawyerβ, your perception of Harvard stems from the fact that it facilitates more services and opportunities than a lot of other universities. That is what you for. All this time youβve been proving me right.
I never claimed JGLS is better than any NLU, all I claimed is that you get better facilities because youβre paying more. Even what youβve classifies a tier 3 NLU could be better than JGLS if a student does it right. But same stands for NLS too. After a point itβs all about the facilities and services that you pay for. And itβs on this kidβs wish and whim to weigh those services against his wants, needs and family finances and then make an informed decision.
1) Regarding Faculty:- You could have cited so many criteria for justifying your claim of Harvard superiority but you chose the primary one to be faculty? Seriously? This is what Jindal is known for. I mean atleast in India, Jindal has got the best faculty, no law school would argue against that. Let me cast a very few completely randomly picked names for you:-
Prof. Michael C. Davis:- LEGEND (https://jgu.edu.in/jgls/faculty/michael-c-davis/)
Professor Shaun Star: This guy literally represented English Premier League teams. He was yesterday awarded the Australia India Impact Award at the India Australia Business & Community Awards Gala 2021. The Australia India Impact Award recognises an individual's contribution to the bilateral relationship. (https://jgu.edu.in/jgls/faculty/shaun-star/)
Prof Agnieszka Gora: She is quite literally a sitting judge in Poland (https://jgu.edu.in/jgls/faculty/agnieszka-gora-blaszczykowska/)
Prof. Raphael Lorenzo Aguiling Pangalangan: A living legend in the field of Public International Law, his father Raul Pangalangan is a judge in International Criminal Court and multiple high end arbitrations too. (http://www.jgu.edu.in/jgls/faculty/prof-raphael-lorenzo-aguiling-pangalangan/)
Prof. (Dr.) Kenneth Holland: (http://www.jgu.edu.in/jgls/faculty/dr-kenneth-holland/)
Prof. (Dr.) Ramin Jahanbegloo: In April 2006 Dr. Jahanbegloo was arrested in Tehran Airport charged with preparing a velvet revolution in Iran. He was placed in solitary confinement for four months and released on bail. He is the winner of the Peace Prize from the United Nations Association in Spain (2009) for his extensive academic works in promoting dialogue between cultures. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramin_Jahanbegloo)
Prof. Gudmundur Eiriksson: He was a member of the United Nations International Law Commission from 1987 to 1996 and a Judge at the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea from 1996 to 2002. He was a member of Icelandic delegations in numerous international forums, including the Council of the North Atlantic Salmon Conservation Organization where he served as President from 1984 to 1988. (http://jgu.edu.in/jgls/faculty/gudmundur-eiriksson/)
These are just some of them, I havenβt even mentioned all. I donβt know if you noticed that I havenβt even mentioned the likes of Upendra Baxi, B.B. Pande, M.P. Singh, B.S. Chimni, Justice Swantenter Kumar, A. Francis Julian because you only suck up to colonialism.
Also youβre a hypocrite because I am quoting you from comment 2.1.1.1 wherein you said (in relation to Jindal)
Quote: Now in Jindalβs case better faculty doesnβt matter and in Harvardβs case faculty is your primary criteria. Also you are praising Jindalβs faculty earlier in 2.1.1.1 but here you are criticising it. Hypocrisy much? As I suggested later, donβt go for a moot please, do your university a favour.
But right since your yourself agreed that Jindalβs faculty is better and in while justifying Harvardβs superiority your primary criteria is faculty, it can be easily assumed that you are insinuating that Jindal >>> any NLU in India. These are not my words, these are yours. I donβt believe this, in fact argued better against jindal than you have. I donβt know if you know, we have 3 professors and 1 TRIP fellow in each class. The professors that I have mentioned are senior professors who teach us and are accompanied by two junior professors who are fresh graduates from top universities in the world. Thatβs the quality we are talking about, I never said JGLS is better than Harvard but by applying you theory it is certainly the best in India.
2) Quote: How do you say that? I have a lot of batch-mates who didnβt want to get into a top NLU, in-fact thanks to NRI quota, itβs really easy to get into one. There are people who have joined jindal cracked clat and left jindal too, these are people with finanacial issues. AIR 38 of CLAT 2020 (Shivansh studied at Jindal for a year) and that speaks about the quality of students. We have a lot of students on scholarships and most students who have achieved 98+ percentile on LSAT usually have offers from top NLUs but choose to come to Jindal. We have a good 60 students who choose Jindal over NLUs (again unlike you I am not insinuating Jindal is better than any NLU), theyβve got scholarships and theyβre happy to stay here for their own reasons.
Quote: Please introduce me to this person because Iβve seen people dying to teach at Jindal and I donβt see any reason for celebrity professors (international faculty) to say in the village of Haryana earning in rupees and not euros and also enduring βa pathetic classroom experienceβ. You canβt make bogus claims, cite this data.
Quote: No they are well established because there were no universities in the world when they were getting established. There was a lack of universities, especially like Harvard with state of the art facilities. Read your history
Quote: Well Indian government and QS Ranking donβt believe what you said her but i do I never claimed jindal is better than NLU D. Jindal has better faculty and infra. But it was you who is indicating that jindal is better because it has better faculty not me. You understand the chronology of what happened here? You were doing negative unpaid pr here on a post completely unrelated to Jindal where i happened to accidentally stumble upon. To which I replied that at jindal you get better faculty, exposure and infra in exchange for money to which you replied that these things donβt mean anything because GOOD UNIVERSITIES PRODUCE BETTER QUALITY OF STUDENTS, i rebutted this assumption and never did I say that Jindal is better than any university. In fact my argument has been that beyond a point, university can not produce better student, it can only facilitate. Now when asked youβve changed your argument and are back to dogging Jindal, but what about your initial argument, how does a university produce better students?
Quote: Seriously? Go read your comments please youβre looking like an epitome of hypocrite.
About faculty, first of all, I said the faculty at Harvard is better than faculty at JGLS. If you want to contest that, please go ahead and make yourself a laughing stock.
About you misquoting my statements to support your argument, I never said the faculty at Jindal is the best in India. The sentence that you quoted is one that I actually was sceptical about, hence the badly balanced equation end. Clearly, that went over your head. Maybe you need 3 professors and one fellow to hammer things into your brain.
About you name-dropping 8-9 people, that point has already been made about marquee hires by me earlier. At the same time, you have close to 300 faculty and more than 800 students including the 3 year llb batch. The point that I made about a large number of fresher LLMs making up a bulk of faculty strength is also accurate. I won't start naming those people, you can check your faculty list. The lack of screening is also very real, any academic in this country who has applied or been invited by Jindal knows that. If you are a student, then you are unlikely to be aware of it.
As for your claim that academics are dying to teach at Jindal, only people who have got no connection with academia make such stupid claims. There are plenty of good faculty at the NLUs whom Jindal has tried to poach in vain. Those who do go to Jindal do so for two main reasons, one is the salary, which is the highest among all law schools in the country. The other is that they get research perks. Nobody goes there to get better classroom experience. Maybe you should ask your faculty why they say so in their familiar circles instead of demanding that I name people who said that.
Even more importantly, let us accept your argument as valid that Jindal's faculty is the best at present in India. We again return to the familiar question then, why aren't Jindal students doing ostensibly better than other students in any particular field? Shouldn't law students, when taught by better teachers, become better lawyers and professionals? The day you can give a logical answer to that question would be the day that Jindal's claim to being a better and more superior institution not meet with ridicule.
Your personal ad hominem attacks I would ignore because they aren't really worth responding to.
My life has been a lie. I feel bad about myself now. Why didnβt I have a mentor like you?
At least in that era at GLC, no one cared.
Caveat: it could also be because we were not residential folks and were already trying to hustle through various law firm jobs; so our interaction with fellow students was much less compared to a typical NLU cohort staying at campus, full time.
You are doing unpaid PR work (like all your internships) out here and making dubious claims which kind of suggest that law schools inject some sort of secret knowledge in their students which make them better lawyers. You were propagating an ideology which has always ostracised kids from newer law schools which you call βtier 2 universitiesβ as pointed out on a separate conversation I read today. You only got rebutted and now youβre a crybaby. Donβt get into moots (just a suggestion).
If youβre making a claim here, please refer me to the comment where it was claimed that JGLS is a better university. The claim was that you get more academic and subsidiary services (like air conditioned room and cockroach-less food) because you pay more. Thatβs it. Stop being insecure of other universities dude. Nobody even praised JGLS here, infact it was satirically called out for being full of privilege, you came in here and started with your unreasonable banter and NLU supremacy theory.
Start listening to contrary opinions, if any claim made here is false, I again urge LI to flag it as facts contested.
B. I never claimed in any thread on LI that NLUs or even NLSIU is 'superior' to any institution. For the sake of disclosure, I did my LLB from abroad. I don't even believe in the institutional superiority of my alma mater.
C. I certainly don't believe that institutions can force you to become a good lawyer. They can at best provide an environment conducive to it. It is a point of fact that certain institutions, because of multiple factors, including the quality of the students joining those, do a better job than others in this, yet students from others can bridge that gap if they put their mind to it.
D. I have worked with a lot of graduates and interns from the universities here, including NLUs and JGLS. I'm only naming the latter among the private universities because it does differ in its approach from those. I have not really seen any institutional trend of some of them being better than others. There have been good students from NLUs and bad ones. Same for JGLS.
E. If you are claiming that nobody in this comments section has claimed the superiority of JGLS over other institutions, then you are factually incorrect. Please go through the comments more carefully. Not that I believe that they must have been made by people actually from JGLS, which is why I had used a qualifier in my earlier comment.
F. I do happen to believe that at present, if a student joins some of the NLUs (and yes, there is an institutional difference, since not all NLUs are alike, some are languishing in neglect, lack of faculty, incompetent administration etc), then they are going to get almost all the opportunities necessary to become a good lawyer. If they join JGLS, they would get those too. Whether one joins either, depends on their choice. They are unlikely to regret their choice one way or the other. If someone wishes to actually see tangible worth for the additional money spent at JGLS, they would get it in terms of the infrastructure and comfort. If they want to say that their wards have become better lawyers at JGLS than they would have become at the NLUs, they are unlikely to get any evidentiary support for that at this stage at least.
G. I am still confused about the reference to PR and moot. Which institution did I do the PR for? And what does anything that I said here have got anything to do with moots?
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Or you could be adored for your privilege, befriended for the benefits that come with knowing someone whose dad is a biggie in the industry.
Both are toxic for you. In time, you will learn that your constant companion is only yourself, and Fairweather friends or foes, both are impermanent. Stay in your lane. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Maybe you will find some genuine friends who will make life feel better on the bad days, and who inspire you to do the same for others. The romantic lawyer would say that is his role in society, to make life better for others, and inspire by example.
Good luck, and enjoy law school.