We want LI to be one of the friendliest places on the internet, where lawyers and law students help each other with their career related queries and occasionally discuss other stuff that might affect their lives too. In other words:
1. Be kind, respectful and helpful to each other.
2. Be bona fide, truthful, genuine and curious.
3. Assume the best intention of others.
Therefore, in using the site, you must agree to do your best to uphold these community guidelines.
Note that what you find here is written and moderated by anonymous people on the internet.
Therefore everything you read here is very likely unverified, rumour, speculation and/or downright false.
In continuing to read anything here, you must therefore agree not to take anything you read here as factual and that you will exercise due caution, diligence and common sense before acting on any information you may come across here.
You also agree to report any inaccurate or malicious comments with the buttons. Moderators take action within 24 hours, as required and appropriate under law.
Our full terms and conditions apply too.
Do you solemnly agree to all of the above?
In sum, do the NCA and get out. You'll still have a better life than in India. However, if big law corporate practice is your dream, then do a JD.
If you do go via the JD option, you'll have to take the LSAT. The best schools will give you offer if you can score a 80 percentile and had a CGPA of 3.7/4. Any better and you can count yourself in running for the loan program.
I can go on if people come up with specific questions.
Why was I downvoted?
While downvotes are definitely not scientific (and sometimes accidental), so please don't take them personally, in this case it's conceivable certain readers might have objected to the opinion that a life in Canada is better than in India.
-Domestic students from Canada opting for foreign degrees are usually those who cannot make it to a Canadian Law School, thus raising doubts about the competency of those who do not have non Canadian legal education in general. Is it fair? Probably not, but when you consider the fact that Australian unis like Bond have courses designed specifically for Canadian students who cannot make it into a law school there makes it justifiably suspect in the eyes of employers.
-Lack of familiarity with Indian Legal Education. This one should be fairly self-explanatory. Employers in Canada do not know anything about legal education in India. They cannot differentiate NLS from LPU, and you could see why that would reduce the employability of NCA lawyers in Canada.
-Lack of access to the formal hiring system. Most Canadian firms offer articling contracts to their 2L Summer Students. If you are out of this system of hiring, your opportunities reduce drastically, simply because firms wish to hire the best talent straight out of law school and fill all their slots accordingly.
Now, am I saying no one with an Indian Legal Education and with NCA Status has ever made a good career for themselves in Big Law? Absolutely not. The odds, however, are stacked against you, especially in the absence of any local contacts who can vouch for you. The high levels of immigration into Canada by lawyers in private practice from India has virtually made it impossible for firms to screen good candidates from bad ones, and so if you are sure about wanting to live in Canada, I would stick to my advice of getting a JD.
Sorry for any grammatical mistakes and hope this post is of some help.
"These students are required to repay the loan portion of their funding during the 10 years following graduation, only if their income is sufficient. If their income falls below a predetermined threshold in a particular year, the loan repayment for that year may be forgiven in whole or in part."
Other law schools have similar options. The program is available to both domestic and international students. The chances of showing 'need' among international students is higher due to steep exchange rates that many of them face.
1. a recognized law degree.
a) This can be done via pursuing a JD at A Canadian institution. LSAT + CGPA + writing samples + LoRs are needed.
b) Alternatively, you may gain equivalency via NCA. They will ask you to clear additional exams specific to Canadian set up. You'll have to do atleast four. You may do these while in India itself.
2. Thereafter, you'll need to clear the Bar exam. There is a separate exam for barristers and solicitors.
3. Finally, you'll need to take up articleshow Canada. This is easiest to get if you studied at a Canadian institution.
...
Now regarding your specific question. You can not practice law in Canada after a LLM.
However, certain schools (UBC, UoT, Osgoode) have now begun offering Professional LLMs for foreign trained lawyers. These serve as fulfilling NCA equivalency requirements. So, you could go the PRO-LLM + Bar + Articleship route. It is absolutely possible for one to get into a top law firm via this method as well.
When I said that "it is absolutely possible for one to get into a top law firm via this method as well," I was speaking of an academically exceptional candidate, with the right people/soft skills, getting incredibly lucky. I have seen it happen with at least 2 people, but both had LLMs from the US after LLB from India as well as some transactional experience.
On the other hand, 7 of 10 JD graduates from a good school will walk into Bay Street firms. You have to pay for the JD (but there are loan options) and you have to spend 3 years in law school again. But that is the opportunity cost which the other poster has chosen as his name on this thread.
Even at the Articleship stage - which may otherwise feel most daunting (esp. if you are coming in via NCA) - there are programs to give you a helping hand. The most difficult thing about getting an articling job is not knowing anyone and not carrying the name of an institution with you. To overcome this, kindly see Ryerson's Law practice program (LPP):
https://lpp.ryerson.ca/
Bottomline is that if you wish to come to make a life in Canada, there are multiple avenues and multiple opportunities down each of them. You just need to do the research at your end to figure out what suits you best.
I once did back-of-the-envelope calculations when I was still in college and realised that the fees from the students just about covered the salary of the professors and not much was left for capital and non-recurring expenditures.
So, I did a quick google search (it took 5 minutes - and yes, I am free right now) and the numbers are all publicly available.
The college even today hardly has any money left after paying its staff. It weirdly takes pride in not receiving any "maintaining expenditure" from the UGC [see Para 19 of this judgment: https://indiankanoon.org/doc/180877490/]. I checked the latest budget and the difference between the income from the fees charged to the students minus salary of staff and utilities (water + electricity + internet) is ~INR 75L - that's not much for an institution and certainty leaves little for capital expenditure. I am not even accounting for the many other expenditures which would naturally arise. Another interesting piece is the absence of interest payments - which would indicate that the college didn't build its infrastructure by taking credit / loans.
Budget: http://www.nlujodhpur.ac.in/uploads/23162009101146.pdf.
The newer buildings: the moot court hall, auditorium, library, administrative block, second mess, badminton court, etc., the college couldn't have constructed them without Government / UGC grants. The grants released by the UGC are also publicly available. The annual reports for 2011-2012 and 2013-14 set out the amounts released to the college by the UGC - I reckon a fair amount of the newer construction took place from these grants.
2011-12: https://www.ugc.ac.in/pdfnews/Annual_Report_2011-2012_English_Final.pdf
2013-14: (https://www.ugc.ac.in/pdfnews/7938259_Annual-Report-2013-14.pdf)
So, you see, your education is also being subsidized by the Government.
If anything this is unfair, given that the typical student profile in most National Law Universities is upper middle class and upper class. The annual per capita income (accounting for the Indian billionaires) is INR 1.25L - and 99% of the students of NLUs can afford 1.25L, either directly or by accessing credit. I would reckon (and this is an admittedly anecdotal guess) 90% of the students spent more money in a year than the annual per capita income.
If this were not the case, then the state could claim to subsidize my education even prior to paying for buildings etc. because they built the road which I used to reach the building.
That's how state education began in the Anglophone world, capital expenditure and token grant in aid and then schooling was gradually taken over by the gov't. The model remains in use for higher education.
By your metric, because the Brits pay £9,000 per annum their gov't doesn't subsidise their education.
Quote: This is basic stuff. Roads are paid for (largely*) by the general public and used by the general public and, barring a few, all of them are accessible to the general public. The general public doesn't get to walk in and demand a degree from the NLUs.
* Since 2008-09, direct taxes have consistently contributed more than 50% to the govt’s total tax revenues with the exception of 2016-17. Plus the burden is inordinately borne by Maharashtra: https://www.indiatoday.in/news-analysis/story/asindia-aims-for-5-trillion-economy-direct-tax-data-show-wealth-concentrated-in-3-states1610818-2019-10-23
You are probably not aware that, during its initial days, it was the patronage of Ashok Ghelot (Congress) that got NLU Jodhpur off the ground.
That's some mental gymnastics.
Another option is to do the California Bar qualification - you do not need a US LLM, and being qualified in a foreign jurisdiction is enough to make you eligible. They have a very long drawn moral character assessment process, so the day you decide to do it and the day you manage to do it may well be a year or more apart. The other option is the England and Wales qualification through the SQE route (since the QLTS is being phased out). Both the California and E&W route have not been tested (as far as I know) to get a job abroad, but they could potentially swing things for you (especially if visa regimes are liberalised for Indians, such as potentially discussed between Boris and Modi).
Singapore (especially on the capital markets front) and Dubai are also options for Indian lawyers to move to laterally. Both offer benefits of remaining relatively close to home whilst also being abroad. Downside is that citizenship in Dubai will never happen, so you will continue as an NRI for the future. Don't know about the citizenship regime in Singapore.
This brings you to UK, USA and/or Canada. It is easiest to get into the former two, but the latter provides the best standard of living. Read, speak to people, and take a call - these are all good options.
I would add that if you do get a job in Singapore, take it- particularly if it is with an international law firm (US or Magic/Silver Circle). Once you're in SG for a couple of years and get absorbed into the international qualification scale; you can then look at transfers within your firm or another international law firm into London/New York. The downside of moving jurisdictions as an Indian lawyer under this route (US LLM-New York qualification) is that any experience gained at Indian law firms will be completely cut- you will start at NQ. But you earn ten times what you will earn in India, so I guess it pans out.
Unfortunately, Singapore/Middle East do not offer citizenships easily, but they have very very low tax rates.
Now choose which country you want.
Much better than slumming it out in India anyways. I like my life in Amreeka!!
Good luck!
while doing SQE is not that difficult (there are lot of coaching institutions who provide decent study materials, costly but effective) getting a job is.
Unlike say the NHS trusts which have capacity to absorb foreign qualified doctors after qualifying exams like PLAB/MPT, law does not have a centralised system for talent acquisition. So, you would have to do jugaad and search for jobs one firm at a time or use one of the aggregators (rollonfriday/indeed). Unless you have prior contacts in the profession in the UK it will be difficult to have a smooth transition from India to the UK as a practising lawyer. Please do not do LLM in the UK if you intend to be a practising lawyer in the UK. It is better to enrol in a SQE coaching centre online.
I've got a decade of litigation experience and am considering a move. Have put off my LL.M. all these years.
Any other modes of entering the Australian legal market?
Also, are there any major advantages of one over the other? I have often seen people come back to India after doing LLMs in the US. Does that reflect that it is relatively harder to settle over there, in terms of finding job opportunities? Alternately, would prior experience in a firm in India bolster one's chances of getting into Big Law in Canada via the NCA route?
Also in which category does our 5 years BALLB fall? Like- category 1- masters or professional degree or category 2- bachelor's degree.
Reason why i am asking is that WES considers our course as a 4year course than 5 year course and categorises it as a bachelor's degree rather than professional degree. Where as on Canadian immigration website we have seperate option for bachelor degree OR masters and professional degree.
Reason i am asking this is that it will affect the CRS score.