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Fellow lawyers,

Bonuses are in, people are flush with cash. Would love to hear how you manage your money, investments and taxes.

Just drop your tips and gyan. Or here is a indicative format

PA at xyz
Annual savings:
Pro Investment/Tax Saving methods I use:

[I know the year has been a rainfall year for equity, let's focus on what you have been doing over 2+ years and not just because of the bull run]
I really hope there is more personal finance awareness within the lawyer community. It would really help us invest money properly instead of spending on expensive pens and watches just to show off.
Tissots are not even in the consideration when people that value watches choose to purchase one.

Buy your first Omega/Rolex when that A4 Bonus hits
What's the use? Will it allow you to get some extra hours in a day to catch up on your sleep? No.
I have mostly observed that litigators have better taste in watches than Law Firm partners. Lot of Rolexes/Omegas/Breitlings/Grand Seikos/Cartier and some APs and even Patek. Mr. Datar rocks a Speedmaster, for example.
Hesalite or sapphire crystal?😃 I personally prefer the hesalite on the speedmaster.
That's probably because litigators get that as gifts from clients? I remember reading that Mukesh Ambani bought Mr Salve a wardrobe, although that could be BS.
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Lot of Rolexes/Omegas/Breitlings/Grand Seikos/Cartier and some APs and even Patek. Mr. Datar rocks a Speedmaster, for example.
None of those are indicators of good taste. A Flying Officer? Yes. The brands are just that. Brands to signal conspicuous consumption.

Assuming you're buying a watch instead of just inheriting one.
Can you introduce me to your Rolex AD. Need a stainless steel Oyster Perpetual 41mm. No AD I know has stock to sell at MRP.

For the other kids, stop the watch hate. Tissot is nowhere near what Partners should be wearing (if you mean to impress). Of course you can wear what you like, if the goal is not to impress but to enjoy your watch.

Omega is good - get the moonwatch. Others you can think of are: Grand Seiko, IWC and Tudor. If you are rolling in the moolah, may be you can think of AP, Patek, JLC, A. Lange & Sohne, VC and other such pieces.

I'll go back to enjoying my Seiko now.
99.9% corporate lawyers are in it for the money
0.1% are confused

My smartest friend retired recently after putting together 4 cr
But he felt sacrifices to get there were not worth it

One parent expired with whom he could spend only little time. Work got in way of good relationships. He is separated.

He admits he is not overall happy
Would it matter if he reached his milestone 5 or 10 years later?
He may have been better off

Invest in happiness
Yes, please! Hope some senior pros give us useful tips. Few of us really lack proper guidance regarding financial management.
Of your salary, spend 30-50%. Save rest and max out PPF, 10% in NPS, get a second health insurance, get a life insurance when you have dependents. Donate 5-10%. Remaining put in the below:

May be spend 10% of your bonus and put 90% into the following:

Equity - 50% of which large cap 20%, flexi cap 10%, NASDAQ fund 20%. Avoid sectoral/thematic funds.
Debt - 30%. AAA/ SOV only with modified duration < 18 m-24 months
Cash - 10%
Gold - 5%
Bitcoin - 5%
Saving strategy:-

1. Save minimum 30% of your fix monthly payout
2. Investments-
a. MFs (SIP)
b. ELSS (SIP) (Tax saving) (1.5 lacs since PPF pays peanuts as against 14-18% CAGR of ELSS)
c. NPS (50k annually)
d. Health Insurance (1st parents, 2nd your self and 3rd spouse- if applicable) (children in case you have them)
e. Equity (Stocks) since I invest a monthly sum every month. I see it as an EMI
f. Small stacks of cash- 20k-30k each month into FDs (emergency funds)
g. Bonus payouts (50%- invested into stocks, 30%- lumpsum MF, 20%- FD or household yearly maintenance expense)

3. Try and remain debt free. Cash is the king and makes you take financial and life decisions with relative ease.

4. Do not spend more than 1/3rd limit of your credit card. Helps you maintain a healthy credit score for larger financial goals in life.

5. Prefer to live like a poor and stack up your investments which will surprisingly start compounding after 3-5 years.

6. Try not to take EMIs and treat your monthly disciplined investments as EMIs.

7. Barring HRA/ LICs/ Home Loans- lawyers can easily save 2.5lacs/ year with basic investments. DO NOT INVEST ANY LESS. Its your money. Use it wisely and buy peace.

8. Play for next FY on 1st April and not 1st Jan of the next year. Buy mental peace and discipline.
Some advice here is so BORING. In short people are saying be a miser.

FACT is many people die before reaching that savings milestone. Or are old and tired past their best years by then.

Live a little. It is okay to spend on living a good happy life.
If you work in a law firm (and earn 1L):

Save 50% of your salary (50k).

Do not spend more than 20% for Rent (20k). 10% for travel (10k). 10% for Food and party (10k). Remaining 10% for utilities, bills, etc.

By the time you become an S.A., you would have saved up at least 30-40 lakhs.

With that kind of money, you should quit, go to Andaman and open a small restaurant. Maybe even travel across South America and settle down someplace nice.
My only advice will be to put at least 5-10% of your total investments in crypto, (I have 50% bitcoin and 50% eth).
Have you read about the Tulip Mania? Crypto is the same. Just ensure you're not the one left holding the bag.

And yes, I think the tech behind crypto has its uses: cryotocurrencies OTOH have no intrinsic value and are not a repository of value. This mania is a classic "greater fool" mania.

The other risks to consider which are India specific:

1. Cryptocurrencies are proposed to be banned by the Government: https://www.prsindia.org/theprsblog/ban-cryptocurrencies-understanding-proposed-legislation

2. If you're a firm lawyer, just ask yourself, why wouldn't the Government ban cryptos? The FEMA checks and balances are bypassed by cryptos and in a country which doesn't allow full capital convertability, it makes no sense to "invest" in cryptos.

If you want to do a YOLO WSB style speculation in cryptos, then atleast understand that it's a YOLO speculation.

And don't tell me how much you've already made: bad decisions don't equate to bad returns in the short term.
A great illustration of lawyers' inability to understand finance and/ or technology. I hope the rest of the legal folks are not stuck with their head in the mud like you. Cryptos are like what stocks were in the 16th/ 17th century and the whole "fuss" about value is ignorant gibberish of random folks without any understanding of economics. Value doesn't equate to utility, it's anything one is willing to pay for it. A painting is absolutely value less for me, but if one is willing to pay millions for it, then it's value is in millions. Fiat currency doesn't have any underlying value but the promise of the government. The total market cap of cryptocurrencies is already 3/4th of India's GDP, by the time you read it, it may well be more. There's a reason why Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, Blackrock, Paypal, Microstrategy and Tesla are embracing it, Bitcoin ETFs are being launched in Canada and Brazil and progressive economies such as Japan and Switzerland are building infrastructure around it. The world is changing, you cannot stop an idea whose time has come. Law firms may as well become irrelevant with automation and AI by the late 2020s, you need to educate yourself and be prepared. Be better, not bitter.
without going into the debate of value v utility, the main risk with cryptocurrencies is the future stance of govt. So far govts around the world have not taken any decisive steps in banning cryptos, they may have passed regulations with some sanctions, however no step has been taken to throttle the market. If the govt wants then it can require financial intermediaries to stop moving funds to crypto linked accounts (this was one of the suggestions in the RBI report, which was not reflected in the later orders). A very bad analogy will be of ISPs banning a particular website. While its not foolproof, but it would cut down a supermajority of transactions. So, my only suggestion would be to be aware of regulatory risks in India on this issue. Cryptos have lot of promise but the ability to control flow of money has been the main source of power for govts (although if you are purist you may argue it is role of a central bank), so it is unlikely that a govt will give up its pole position, it may try to co-opt, we are unsure what will be its effect on valuation (eg China few months ago) or it may put control measures with teeth. To reiterate be aware of the regulatory risks.
BTW investment in art is another example of greater fool theory. There is no inherent value of the Monalisa, except today someone finds it beautiful and they're willing to pay a price of "X" for it.

Fait currency doesn't need to have underlying value because it is a repository of value by legal fiction. The RBI Governor actually says that he promises to pay the bearer the amount mentioned in the note.

The "whole fuss about value is ignorant gibberish": this is the view of Buffet and Munger as well and other major value investors.

The technology has its uses - they're no denying that. But there is no underlying value of bitcoins or other cryptos.

The defining characteristic of a mania is that no one (or most) cannot predict it or do not believe it's a mania until it's too late. So, any example of MS or GS entering cryptos is a red herring - you would have said, in 2007, that the sub prime mortgage market was safe because "Lehman couldn't be crazy betting on it". Also, let's see when these IBs start prop trades - not selling cryptos to their clients without any fiduciary duty to them.

See I'm all for everyone investing where they want to invest. But this is a YOLO speculation but maybe I'm a conservative investor.
You'd know about their value if you were informed about the hundreds of decentralized projects happening all over. Humanity and science isn't bound by the limitations of your knowledge and understanding. You may feel that quantum research has no value, since you aren't educated enough to understand quantum physics, but that doesn't make the research redundant. All cryptocurrencies/ assets have enormous value in being utility or governance tokens of their respective blockchain projects. You need to apprise yourself of how a public blockchain works and then you can have an informed discussion on this topic.
Totally with @1cjack640 on this one. Dont have time to write a long post. And I HAVE NOT (yet) invested in cryptos so far. I was reading up and researching on the subject. Fortunately, I recently had to work across a super specialized fund investing in only cryptos (yes, there are such funds, google it). I had the chance to read their research work. Suffice it to say, anyone who had invested in the early days must be reaping great dividends now, and anyone investing now will reap great dividends in the future. I have already allocated a portion of my income for this purpose. Just have to find some bloody time to actually sit down and invest.
Yep, Bain Capital is one of the biggest backers of Compound which allows you to lend and generate yield from crypto assets. It is already being used by institutional investors and several big players.

While I believe in crypto, the arguments made here by crypto skeptics are very 2017esque. The ecosystem is much different now. Rather than investing I would ask you to read about crypto projects which have a real life use, some examples just one example is BAT.

Like it is surprising no one has mentioned Defi (decentralised finance) and NFTs in this debate. All NFTs are somehow connected to Ethereum, my understanding is most rely on MATIC, which by the way is an Indian crypto project with USD 4bn+ market cap.

As far as what is the value of crypto is concerned sI would ask people to read about the Proof of Work v Proof of Stake debate, ETH follows Proof of Stake, which basically means if you hold ETH and Stake it with a node for allowing the blockchain to function you get a small portion of the transaction fees from people who use the ethereum blockchain. So as long as there is a use of crypto based products Ethereum has value. Let's not delve into the deflationary pressure created by the recent Eth proposal adoption.

PS: I consider myself to be a complete noob when It comes to crypto, and have only recently started reading about it.
The PPM / IM of a fund is a marketing + compliance document. The part where they wax eloquent about the opportunities is marketing hogwash.

I wonder if the fund had a high water mark fee structure without annual management fees. That would mean that the manager really believes in cryptocurrency on a long term basis. I would also be interested in reading the risks highlighted in thier PPM.
This debate is turning out to be outstanding. I would love to actually put faces behind the people making arguments for Crypto and talking about Matic, Ethereum, Defi. Lot to uncover and an revolutionary industry being created right in front of our eyes.
[MODERATOR WARNING: When speaking to anonymous people directly over the internet, particularly about financial investments, please exercise ADDITIONAL CAUTION and make sure you are aware of the existence of FRAUDS, SCAMS, etc. That is not to discourage readers making real connections - the below is likely a genuine and bona fide response to the connection request and to chat - but do please keep your guard up!]

Hi,

My discord is XATG1#4981, in case you want to connect.
The narrative around any civilizational advance, especially those that threaten to disrupt the status quo, is usually riddled with fearmongering. It was the case with automobiles, electricity, computers and internet. Even elevators weren't widely accepted (and were only used for goods for decades). The narrative around Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies by those who refuse to understand the technological and economic potential is also similar. From a technological standpoint, no government anywhere can ban Bitcoin or any crypto asset on a public blockchain, unless it shuts down the internet. With the world waking up to the potential of decentralization and investing legends/ institutions endorsing bitcoin as a long term store of value/ digital gold/ hedge against inflation [Stan Druckenmiller, Paul Tudor Jones, Bill Miller, Michael Saylor (Microstrategy), Rick Rider (Blackrock), Winklevoss twins, Chamath Palihapitiya and even Elon Musk, to name a few], any ill informed narrative such as yours is very disappointing. And do read about Network effect
How do A0s moving to Bombay save money? (assuming you don't have a place to stay in Bombay and have to take a place on rent) - if someone has tips please bata do
I wasn't able to save much when I chose to work at a law firm in Mumbai.
The only good decision I made was to not get a gym membership (like everyone in office) because I literally did not have time for much else besides work.
This is not hyperbole.
Sometimes you just have shitty luck and end up in a team that has no chill.
Yo my dear A0,

I assume you are already feeling rich with that wfh bank balance ballooning and don't want to part with that excellent bit of compounding that you might have witnessed if you had SIP'd in any of the funds (or lost out on).

As you pack your backs and think about the life in Bombay, here are the key items that save money, while living relatively well (India terms):

On Living Arrangements

Share a 'good' house: Yes, find a good friend and share your room at least for next two years. Compromise with sharing only though. You want to have a fully furnished house (preferably a big hall to host parties and set up a projector), ensure access to good cook/maid is available, as well as decent cafe's around. Anything within 30 mins by road, which is spacious and airy is good - spend time because, contrary to common opinion, such flats exist in Mumbai.

The sharing will ensure that your mental nerves in a gruelling week is calmed by your mates (if non-law, even better) + you save big expenses. You also save money by having a decent home to host friends instead of going out day in and day out - which is this expensive in the city + getting the good cook to prepare the best meals (most of which you might not get to eat).

Living wise, I got lucky to be working in BKC, as Santa Cruz, Vile Parle, Andheri are home to huge flats + easy access to Western Express Highway makes commute to office comfortable [Pro tip: Avoid the roundtrip 300/day fare by getting your own vehicle or car pooling].

Invest in yourself

Good living arrangement of about 20K/m, will cut down almost all your major expenses. Add 10K for ration/electric/data + 6K commute + 6K drinks/group outing budget + 8K fitness (gym/football teams) + 10K clothing/random buying (Netflix etc) . That's 60K/month in toto.

Don't spend more than that (and cut costs in the above where possible - I have given you outer limits. Since I lived in Vile Parle, I was able to cover all of the above in around 35K month), save the rest.

In addition if possible, start putting out 1 lakh as education/networking budget to join relevant clubs, meeting people, networking with strangers. Carve out another 1 lakh for travel and gifting.

You may of course look at the above and see excessive expenditure. That is not the case, you can cut costs on fitness (and not be healthy), networking/education budget (and miss out on growing in life), drinks/outing budget (and miss our on sharing life stories over drunken banter) and travel budget (why are you even earning? Please tell me?)

For people who make less: Do all of the above. Cut the allocation if you earn less. Spend less on travel and use locals/buses, party at home, purchase a fitness kit instead of getting a trainer - but do all of the above. Don't focus on saving everything and loose sight of your life. Take spa breaks, treat yourself, catch a drama at Prithvi or the NCPA.

The beauty of legal profession, and any practice area in legal, whether litigation or corp, if you are able to maintain a clear head, your work will become easier and your chances of sticking around too. You are in any case going to earn in crores down the line in 10 years. Money is going to be the least of your problems.
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In addition if possible, start putting out 1 lakh as education/networking budget to join relevant clubs, meeting people, networking with strangers.
I'm genuinely curious: what kind of clubs / networking opportunities do you mean? Networking is something that's really scared me and I'm fairly certain I'm not doing it right.
Boss, I resonate so much with what you said and thank you for all those bits I did not know about. I am just hoping @Kian and Legally India let people connect over comments, because you seem like an interesting person and I would love to get to know more about how you think about things. Especially the networking expenses.

Hope you are doing well.
Your tip of spending a few lakhs to buy a car (an incredibly depreciating asset) to save 300 on a round trip (so tops 75-90K a year) is not sound financial advice for most people. If you end up taking a loan to buy a car, it becomes an even more terrible financial decision.

Buying a car is rarely a financially sound decision in any city with a good public transport system and / or reasonably priced Ola / Uber. Mumbai has both. It makes even lesser financial sense when you count in the following:

- your client will end up footing the taxi bill 90% of the times (yay working late hours!);
- the insurance and annual maintenance alone will be more than 15K a year and the petrol bill will be north of 30K (a very conservative back of the envelope estimate, assuming a 10km one-way distance and a decent mileage);
- when you buy a car, you also have to get an apartment which has a parking slot, and I don't know about you, but that's not that an easy task in many parts of Mumbai, especially if you want to actually stay 30 minutes from your work place and work in 90% of the firms (so, 30min from Nariman Point, Fort, Ballard Estate, or the shit hole of Lower Parel); and
- in many firms and offices, there isn't enough free parking space and so you have to spend on parking your car each day. That sum can be as high as INR 100 a day!

Buy a car if: (a) you enjoy driving; (b) you see the convenience of owning a car as exceeding the financial imprudence of buying one - this is rarely the case when you start out; or (c) if there is a benefit of staying significantly far away from work (because you stay at home with your parents or it makes sense for your spouse / children, etc.) and in your specific situation a car works out cheaper.

Watch this youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TwoCentsPBS/videos. While its US centric, it will give you a great deal of food for thought and its easily digestible, which most personal finance forums and websites are not.
Spot on. Consciously said vehicle with intention to include two wheelers. Meant to say either you commute with vehicle you already own (and not are going to purchase) or go for car pooling with people who do.

It may have been naive on my part to assume many of the A0's of today might already have a ride.
Kian, on this subject pls do a story on ex law firm peeps who saved up, quit their jobs and started a business or meaningful venture. That's the dream.