Itโs a vague observation. Because nobody can confirm or reject this. Also this is very subjective.
But if we talk in real sense (on the ground of records as evidence ), tell me even a single IAS officer raising his or her voice (donโt even think about scolding) against the lowest judicial officer. While everyday so many judges are scolding and teaching so many IAS officers.
Still it is a subjective choice according to emotions, personality and life goals.
Replies in this comment is just baseless, whatever they are calling powers are just functions, why we are trying to portray them powerful, No one is powerful at all, when you want justice you'll need a judge and when you want to do any of your work done in the state you'll need IAS or IPS....
Let me first tell you that I am neither an aspirant nor even preparing for PCS(J), I belong to a entrepreneur background but need to say something....On papers, CJI is powerful than PM but we all know who enjoys the real power.....In nation like India Executives enjoys slightly more powers than judiciary obviously not legal but we all know the fact !
If you are not preparing for PCS(J) there is very high probability that you don't know the name of Judge of your own state's highcourt but the name of your town's SDM is very popular among all because we all need them every single day !
In terms of pay and power and prestige judiciary triumphs over upsc .You are kid . check starting salary difference between two + judiciary is independent no politics,no ias ips can interfere.
What the hell is happening here, everyone is fighting like pigs the topic is different and people are saying LLM, judges child and what not. Dude please quote some facts, real life practical scenarios/problems/advantages in both.
Judicial officers are also transferred along with their spouse and if the transfers of the men and women are in different places then one can request the transfer to one place from HC.
he is totally correct because a DJ has the power to strike down an administrative order as unconstitutional. You should literally go to class 8 and study chapter : THE JUDICIARY.. It is clearly mentioned in the law.
DOn't published all useless baseless things. there children are not in judicial service. some of judiciary students are willing to come to join upsc, but unfortunately they are not able to crack the exam.UPSC selected candidate would never ever think to join judiciary. Don't waste your time as well as our. May be you are a advocate,that's why published all baseless and nonsense things. YOU ARE A FRAUD.
A state only has a few choppers at its disposal which cannot be used by anyone other than cm/cabinet ministers.At max, only a CS/ PS home can make use of choppers in rare circumstances.Get your facts right and don't sell these perks as an entitlement for the rest of the cattle class.
Wait. Did this guy just say a DJ has the power to strike down an administrative order as unconstitutional? ๐ Can't believe that sentence is followed by "study the law then argue" lmao
No, not a "random" babu, but the ones in the "right" department - which is exactly what 7.1 says do in fact get access to choppers.
In fact many retired IAS officers have even narrated a few incidents regarding this in their interviews and memoirs. Personally know a couple of them too. Again, this is at CS/ACS level.
Also, read that in context of everything else 7.1 states, particularly: Quote:
There is no point in discussing who has more "power" - that thing basically boils down to the network and clout the individual carries. People get (and are getting) bullied on both sides.
Bro, no random Babu is entitled to a helicopter on the first place. A state only has a few choppers and they are mostly used by cm/council of ministers etc. It is only in the army that army commanders and above(lt gen- commander in chief grade) are entitled to choppers and a private aircraft.
Who are comparing Sec. to Govt. of India equal to HC Judges. Let me tell you thing, In Supreme Court their is a post of Secretary General of Govt. of India an equal post to Secretary to GoI & in state equal to Chief Secretary (clearly written in CPC) which is a deputation post of serving District Judge rank officers. Even current Union Law Secretary is District Judge rank officer. Inshort, a DJ rank officer wherever posted can never become senior or equal to HC Judge in service. HC holds totally administrative control over it. Thus it is a clear proof that Sec. to GoI in no way to compare with HC Judges.
Also It is an Irony that IAS officers below to pay matrix 17 cannot be depute on the post equivalent to Sec. to GoI but District Judge belong to pay matrix 13 to 15 and posted in the level of Sec. to GoI. Current Secretary General of SC was in the level of pay matrix 14 i.e., in Selection Grade when he was posted & hold status of Sec. to GoI.
How citing some old & overruled judgement shows that judiciary is not fighting ? Please explain
It shows that the judiciary has been giving regressive judgements regularly, and thus your narrative of the judiciary fighting for the rights of the people is incorrect. That wasn't too difficult to comprehend, I'll be frank. Yes, those judgements have been overruled now, but that does not counter the fact that regressive rulings were actually handed down.
But even if we ignore the overruled judgements, the OP also cited pending cases - for e.g. the habeas corpus petitions which have/had been pending for way long that acceptable in a civilised society. You may worship judiciary with a blind faith, sir; we, the actual lawyers who care about the institution and this country cannot. We criticise because we hold it accountable at better standards, and we want the institution to improve. Criticism strengthens it. Blind worship destroys it. So if you're actually serious about judiciary or pursuing the legal profession at all, please for the love of god go back to your jurisprudence books and READ.
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Acrdng 2u if Judiciary is not fgtng dn who ? ur govt. ? or ur IAS/IPS ? ๐คฃ๐คฃ
False dilemma fallacy. To break it down for you, your statement assumes that someone is fighting for you, and if it's not judiciary, it's the executive. Have you considered the possibility that, well, no one is fighting for the people?
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Go & ask any1 (who suffered) dt whtr judiciary role impacted or not.
Fallacy of composition.
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Just u've nvr get judgements in ur favour doesn't mean judiciary is nt fghtng. Do also visit d +ve rulings. Then argue.
Ad hominem.
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Here I am Mr., the harbingers of justice. I visit Tis Hazari regularly & also to other courts. Wht is thr ? Tell me.
How citing some old & overruled judgement shows that judiciary is not fighting ? Please explain Acrdng 2u if Judiciary is not fgtng dn who ? ur govt. ? or ur IAS/IPS ? ๐คฃ๐คฃ
Is ur any close member went to hospital during 2wave & struggled for oxygen, 100% not. That's y u r shitties hre 4 judiciary. Go & ask any1 (who suffered) dt whtr judiciary role impacted or not.
Just u've nvr get judgements in ur favour doesn't mean judiciary is nt fghtng. Do also visit d +ve rulings. Then argue.
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Fighting for the right of people? Where are these harbingers of justice, and why don't they visit Tis Hazari more regularly?
Here I am Mr., the harbingers of justice. I visit Tis Hazari regularly & also to other courts. Wht is thr ? Tell me.
Because it's just one guy spamming the entire thread, claiming to be from different Unis - not realising the inherent fallacy of appeal to authority
Aur wo sirf aap ho, Jo alag alag naamo se comment kar rhe. Kisi ko bhi aasani se samjh aa jaye ga. Mujhe bahut hansi aa rhi aap khud ke dwara diye hue sare comments ko hi spam bol rhe ho.
Well said. As per order of precedence, Jt. Secy ranks 26th whereas Hon'ble HC Judge ranks 17th. Even a judge of lowest rank can summon IAS in his court. Now just imagine the power of HC Judge.
This is an unfortunate reality. There is no need to down vote this much.
But what this man is telling is true. I have never seen a talented person from a Top NLU preparing for PCSJ or Judicial Exams. It's the reality thou.
Even if you go to lower NLU's like NLU Assam, DSNLU - Vizag. Only the ones who don't have any extra curricular activities or any chance for a PPO go for Judicial Services.
Even in local small law colleges the talented ones go for Litigation. Even there, only those who are good for nothing prepare for Judicial Exams.
Legally India commentators unnecessarily praise Litigation and PCSJ, because the grass is always greener on the other side. They feel everything is more relaxed than at a law firm.
No one in the legal industry was interested in my internship under divisional commissioner but at same time when they know i have also done internship under CJM they took interest.
Absolutely correct. I was awarded an internship by IT Ministry in 2017 under one of the program & chaired by of senior IAS, I happily participated in that internship & completed it. But when I used that in my CV no one bother. My all enthusiasm goes down. But In 2018, I've done my internship under Civil Judge Saket Court. The reaction for this internship was amazing, highly appreciated & most of all every one took interest in this. Till know many junior asked me how to get internship under judges.
So It make me understand that judicial internship in Law has high & special value.
So did the thread finally die after the series of spam and trolling? Or does someone still have something to contribute?
Don't worry till the blog subsist, the distinguish jurists of judiciary & Civil Service would give their jurisprudence. I am 99% sure here only 4-5 person are debating by continuously changing their names.
So far, you have cited the names of three students without batch year or programme out of a total alumni strength of over 700 to show that NLUD students prefer judiciary over other competitive examinations. That is neither logical nor sensible without a lot of other supporting data. As for the NLS debate, you may come up with any acronym that fits the bill. However, people in the NLU circuit commonly refer to NLSIU as NLS, and that is a fact. If you are not aware of it, then chances are indeed that you do not hail from that circuit. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I would not comment on English skills and other derogatory issues, as I find such aspersions reeking of elitism and distaste, and unbecoming of people with education.
Had you been from any of the NLUs, you'd know they're called NLUs, and NLSIU is called the NLS. It specifically refers to the National Law School in Bengaluru. NLU is the abbreviation used to refer to all national law schools. So first get your abbreviations in order
Seriously ? How are you surviving in law field. The way y've put your point couldn't stop myself from laughing. Ok not at all everyone has problem. Wait I clear your doubt.
Law Schools refer to those colleges which offer other courses too which either directly or indirectly relate to law where as Law college refer to those which only offer law courses. There are number of NLUs which offer other courses so all national law universities collectively called as NLS.
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Just ask him to name ten NLUD LLB grads who have chosen judiciary, and watch him flounder
would I cite more or its enough ? Also NLU Nagpur has started special courses for judicial service. Please read this taken from news paper - Students from NLUs are more driven towards judicial services. Most of the batches preparing for the services, crack the Provincial Civil Service-Judicial Exam (PCS J).
I hope you got your answer.
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CLAT and AILET are English-centric exams and the competition is just too damn high for anyone to crack them with such a poor command over English.
CLAT & AILET is tough ? who told you? Ok you are not believing me, than just ask any of your friend who clear clat or search on internet.
English centric? Last year from two students of my village had cracked this exam. They never went for any top English school.
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another comment that you graduated from DU bruh
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P.s.: Your post was shared by my friend to answer as I am from NLS.
Are yar ek bar post padh bhi liya karo hath jorta hu. He already gave disclaimer. Now its prove that he is from NLU becuase this is called thinking skill who give answer before asking. I have shared him the post to answer when you ask for NLS views.
Concern
This thread is for UPSC & Judiciary and not for NLUs verification. If you don't have answer on UPSC & Judiciary than please keep quite.
Disclaimer - Now don't say that NLS & DU students not have such time to such answer this, xyz silly response. We were have three days vacation from Sat-Mon & so we are here to respond.
I am guessing this person is either a very clever troll or was preparing for PCSJ while having his/her own fantasies about what being in the lower judiciary entails. This thread might have burst his bubble - he/she is now experiencing a quarter life crisis and vehemently trying to defend his/her choice of preparing for PCSJ.
Look, you're either a master troll or really dumb. NLS does not mean all national law schools. It specifically refers to the National Law School in Bengaluru. NLU is the abbreviation used to refer to all national law schools. So first get your abbreviations in order.
You are definitely not a student of any NLU, let alone NLS or NLUD which are probably the two hardest NLUs to get into. I know this because the students of these two universities (and for that matter all NLUs) know the correct abbreviations to use while referring to law universities, and also because a person with your level of fluency in English could never have made it to these two universities, even from a reserved category. CLAT and AILET are English-centric exams and the competition is just too damn high for anyone to crack them with such a poor command over English. I am not attacking you over your poor understanding of the English language, we all come from different backgrounds and not everyone is privileged enough to have attended a posh English medium school. But you are not fooling anyone here by trying to pass yourself off as an NLS or NLUD student.
Had you been from any of the NLUs, you'd know they're called NLUs, and NLSIU is called the NLS. On the other hand, you yourself had mentioned in another comment that you graduated from DU bruh.
Also, you're replying to two different people. You realise that, right?
Did you read the thread or just came here directly. Is there difference between "very few" & "one" ? How did you draw assumption that it mean one person ? I am completely shocked that a person have this level interpretation skill. The above thread were right you are some 10 yr child.
Must respond to my question awaiting for you response.
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And now in a single post you claim to be from NLU-D and NLS at the same time.
Should I laugh or have sympathy for you. Ok both. I know you are 10 yr child so i just share you full form of both - 1.National Law University of Delhi abbreviated as NLU-D 2. National Law Schools (mean when we talk about all National Law Schools then we denote with NLS) abbreviated as NLS
Now go read again my post with these full form.
From next time I will write full form of everything. It is said "don't judge book by it cover "but at same time also said "everything have some exception" in this exception applying and "judging your knowledge by its your posts".
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you must be an LLM grad, who are almost exclusively the only people from NLUD who sit for the judicial exams
1. Are you confused in yourself, in some thread you are not accepting me NLU student (I draw this assumption from your posts) and here citing me as LLM graduate. Hahahahahaa 2. Again I am telling you use internet & just read how to purse LLM in NLU-D it is not like halwa puri that you apply like private school & get NLU-D 3. Also I've done 5yr course from there dear. 4. Why only LLM graduates would go? Is Judiciary only looking NLS (please again don't confuse & read full form of this) graduate ? Let me tell you one thing majority (don't read it as all LLM candidates choice like above you did) of the LLM candidate's first choice always, academic then corporate then govt. services.
If you need to clear any further doubt must respond with your funny question. I like to clear doubts of child. please respond.
I think the response was from his friend who is from NLUD, while he is from NLS. At least that's what I thought after reading it. Now I'm getting confused. Not sure why his friend couldn't write his own answer though.
P.s.: Your post was shared by my friend to answer as I am from NLS.
My man, you've been called out multiple times for pretending to be someone you're not, something always apparent from your English. And now in a single post you claim to be from NLU-D and NLS at the same time. Please stop spamming, for god's sake, you're contributing nothing rational to the discussion.
Lol, if you think that NLUD has more judiciary candidates than UPSC candidates then you must be an LLM grad, who are almost exclusively the only people from NLUD who sit for the judicial exams.
You are saying nobody apart from one student from NLUD has joined Civil Services yet? How can that be? NLUD has a reputation for doing well in the UPSC, that's probably the only graduate outcome metric where they are demonstrably ahead of most other top NLUs.
This is going to be my last response because I think you are not able to understand the nuances of my arguments, and your replies are unrefined, so can't waste any more time on this. I will now let the readers decide for themselves.
Just one clarification: I was referring to Section 155 itself smartass. Please read the comment properly. I am saying that most of the times, the police officers club the non-cog offence with a cog offence so that this Section is not attracted. By doing so, they retain their jurisdiction to investigate the offence independently (without any order from a magistrate) under Section 154 read with Section 156.
The conclusion brings up an interesting point. You see a lot of high calibre students from colleges like NLSIU, NALSAR, NLU Delhi (gold medalists) aiming for IAS (some coming back after Oxford LLM, leaving top jobs at AMSS, S&R etc), but not caring at all for judiciary exams. Even in these colleges, its almost always the low performers who settle for judiciary exams. The top quartile in these colleges if inclined for the Bench are litigating and aiming to be directly elevated to the HC. Something is definitely rotten with the state of subordinate judiciary recruitment/career pathways.
Give the links of your point or placements broucher or anything which says that NLSIU, NALSAR, etc majority students chooses UPSC over judiciary. I am NLU-D graduate of 18 batch & as far I know except very few such as Saumya Sharma, no other has joined UPSC in the history of NLU-D but number of judicial candidate we get every year. Our University attach with Judicial Academy. Many senior or my colleagues who were top firm are now in judicial service. Even in NLSIU my brother graduated in 2019 there was also no UPSC aspirants as far he know but judicial candidate have in every batch in every year. Also it is very less that NLU candidate first choose government service (but if choose then their first choice must be judiciary) rather they opt corporate, litigation, academic etc.
The reason I told you why not choose because our courses are designed in such a way that we get chance to interact with every department and we get required information. So many law students found judiciary much better option than UPSC.
So, don't rumor fake if you don't know anything. P.s.: Your post was shared by my friend to answer as I am from NLS.
Don't know if you have actually seen all this happening on the ground, but in most cases, a person approaches a police station for reporting a crime and effect an arrest. In practice, almost no incidents are reported directly to judicial magistrates even if it's a non-cog offence.
Let me tell you one incident (not a story) of a locality in Gomti Nagar, Lucknow "a judicial magistrate was my neighbour as his official accommodation was not vacant. There were few person who always create nuisance in our locality & when our locality people complaint to police they just with fake ok nod to take action but never took. One day near about 12 clock(not exactly remember timing). one day the group engaged into serious affray. The magistrate was hearing remand at his home at that time & because of such nuisance he was getting disturbed. He in anger shouted all of them but no one heard, he order the police which came for remand to arrest them. They arrested them and call the Inspector & on magistrate direction they were sent to lockup" (I have narrated incident very short otherwise take long).
Moral - Don't rely only on what show by news channel many thing media doesn't cover same like many crimes happen every second but all not get reported and thus we cannot assume that only reported cases are correct report. If such power provided then it must exercised anywhere mere no information can't say that not happen in practical. Discuss like mature person (hope you under what I mean)
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Now I'm sure your next reply will be to cite the definition section of CrPC and bring out the difference between a cognisable and non-cognisable offence, but trust me that is not how it works in real life.
Responding - So, this how your thinking ability. Even a normal man would not think this, the discussion going on some other direction & you are thinking other. Ok no problem, CrPC know what you silly question so a provision already inserted date back in 1973, section 155 (1) "When information is given to an officer in charge of a police station of the commission within the limits of such station of a non- cognizable offence, he shall enter or cause to be entered the substance of the information in a book to be kept by such officer in such form as the State Government may prescribe in this behalf, and refer the informant to the Magistrate".
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Most of your other replies are also based on theoretical or an improper understanding of what authority can mean. You are just comparing designation of posts - ABC is equivalent post to XYZ without understanding the area of influence the post carries. For example, even amongst secretary level posts, you obviously can't compare a Home / Defence / Finance Secretary with the Secretary of Sports Welfare. Being higher in the precedence list doesn't mean anything if it doesn't come with any real authority. It's like saying that the President in India is more powerful than the PM just because he is higher in the order of precedence. I can go on but I think you get the gist.
Responding - What duty performed by Secretary of Sports Welfare is same performed by Home Secretary is performed by Defence Secretary? Does Home / Defence Secretary enter into the work area of Secretary of Sports or vice versa ?
Moral - Again told you discuss like mature person. How President & PM become your example I didn't get it. Although, President is always powerful even in practical life. The PM has only influence over him if he belong from his own party but if from rival party then very less chance. If you consider PM as powerful just on influence basis then in actual it is local politicans because of whom a PM & his party survive. Then they will powerful.
Discuss like sensible person.
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It's a known fact that the Civil Services generally attracts brighter students than the judiciary
Responding - Whatttttttt ? Ok read this three point only -
1. Narendra Modi government announced its ambitious plan to reform the civil services by bringing in fresh talent through the lateral entry process. 2. IAS officers do need specialisation. I think the government should ask all officers to specialise in one domain after 10 years of their service. Right now, most lack that skill -Said N.C.Saxena, a former bureaucrat, who also taught newly-recruited civil servants at the Lal Bahadur Shastri National Academy of Administration, Mussoorie, for eight years. 3. Amid calls to induct โexpertsโ into the civil service, DoPT data shows an overwhelming majority of IAS picks have no specialisation of any kind.
Moral - Again told you talk like mature person. The discussion is going on law students choice but you are including other filed students. I hope you are aware that law can apply UPSC or Judiciary both but a non-law person only eligible for UPSC. So in law field very less that any candidate will choose UPSC over judiciary in government service as they have detail information about the both service during their legal studies. Seriously I am telling in legal field no one care whether you are IAS/IPS/or any as in law an advocate itself presume themselves above IAS/IPS but for judiciary they have high value. So a law it is only corporate sector which over the judiciary.
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If someone wishes to be a judge, they would much rather take the DJS exam route
Responding - You are only citing what you hear from someone. Majority people who wants to stay in judiciary they didn't choose DJS because here promotion scope very slow in regard to other state. In majority of states 2008 Batch Judicial officers are ADJ (in UP 2009 also) but in DJS it is still stuck between 2005-06. One my senior was in DJS & he resign and join UPJS because of this reason. Only people join DJS -
1. Who want stay in Delhi permanently. 2. Who want career scope in Corporate as partner or Other top offices or earn more 3. Who didn't want to get transfer in far areas. 4. Very few desire to join DJS for other reason
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And this will remain the case until and unless a All India Judicial Service Exam is created
Responding - For AIJS please read various research paper & Law Commission report that whether it solve than discuss. Don't read government report.
Ending my response with quoting respected Divisional Commissioner Sir, suggestion must read - The Divisional Commissioner under whose office I interned, at last day when I visited his office to receive certificate, he interacted with me ask my career. I just told him randomly that I want to be an IAS he said why IAS why not judiciary ? You are lucky that you took right study profession. Go for judiciary it has far brighter scope than Civil Services. Atleast there you will work happily and under the guidance educated one and pay, perks are far better. In deputation what rank we got the similar rank they also get but in field what power they get we didn't. My son has pursed engineering from NIT, but if he had done law than I'll suggest him for judiciary. He quoted number of his friend IAS child who are now judges.
Copying your point with few modification - Just to add a disclaimer, reiterating that both services and organs of the govt are essential. But since we are talking about a single career choice here taking in context only law student, objectively speaking, PCS-J will be a better choice depend than Civil Service
I know you will respond, but again saying "truth is truth, accept it" with argument nothing will change.
The conclusion brings up an interesting point. You see a lot of high calibre students from colleges like NLSIU, NALSAR, NLU Delhi (gold medalists) aiming for IAS (some coming back after Oxford LLM, leaving top jobs at AMSS, S&R etc), but not caring at all for judiciary exams. Even in these colleges, its almost always the low performers who settle for judiciary exams. The top quartile in these colleges if inclined for the Bench are litigating and aiming to be directly elevated to the HC. Something is definitely rotten with the state of subordinate judiciary recruitment/career pathways.
Any Magistrate, whether Executive or Judicial, may at any time arrest or direct the arrest, in his presence, within his local jurisdiction, of any person for whose arrest he is competent at the time and in the circumstances to issue a warrant (section 44 CrPC)
Again, please talk about it in practical terms and don't cite theoretical provisions. Don't know if you have actually seen all this happening on the ground, but in most cases, a person approaches a police station for reporting a crime and effect an arrest. Now I'm sure your next reply will be to cite the definition section of CrPC and bring out the difference between a cognisable and non-cognisable offence, but trust me that is not how it works in real life. In practice, almost no incidents are reported directly to judicial magistrates even if it's a non-cog offence. That's because the police officers always insert one random provision of IPC which is a cognisable offence to retain jurisdiction over the crime and investigate the matter. I request you to understand the nuances of legal practice and not just mug up provisions of law.
Most of your other replies are also based on theoretical or an improper understanding of what authority can mean. You are just comparing designation of posts - ABC is equivalent post to XYZ without understanding the area of influence the post carries. For example, even amongst secretary level posts, you obviously can't compare a Home / Defence / Finance Secretary with the Secretary of Sports Welfare. Being higher in the precedence list doesn't mean anything if it doesn't come with any real authority. It's like saying that the President in India is more powerful than the PM just because he is higher in the order of precedence. I can go on but I think you get the gist.
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Sanctioned strength - IAS = 6, 396 Vacany - as per the government, there is a shortage of 1449 IAS (nearly 22%)
Sanctioned Strength of Judges = 24, 247 vacany = as per law ministry 4,929 (nearly 21%)
Lastly, I don't understand how sanctioned strength or vacancies indicate preferences of candidates. Vacancies are created because the government has been recruiting less people than required. It's not because posts are advertised and people are not interested in applying. It's a known fact that the Civil Services generally attracts brighter students than the judiciary (exceptions may always be there but they remain exceptions and not the norm).
Just to add a disclaimer, reiterating that both services and organs of the govt are essential. But since we are talking about a single career choice here, objectively speaking, the Civil Services will be a better choice than entering into the PCS-J. If someone wishes to be a judge, they would much rather take the DJS exam route (7 years post qualification exam for district judge level posting) or try to get a direct elevation to HC after practising for 10-15 years. And this will remain the case until and unless a All India Judicial Service Exam is created.
I came here with expectation that little bit my doubt will clear to choose between upsc or judiciary but here seen is totally different.
Someone just uses the word "vs" (they should feel shame) instead they should use "and", all aspirants start quarrelling like how it is India v Pakistan comment. I didn't understand whether legally India give time on this blog. We human really dumb before applying mind we start on.
UPSC & Judiciary both are main organ and over democracy subsist because both are doing good. So, please provide positive aspects. whole India know the cons of both service nothing is hidden even pros also but here to define your dream in your way i.e., why you want to go into that service, rather than criticizing other.
The judicial members have no authority outside the courtroom and they usually struggle to get things done through contacts even for themselves (let alone others).
Responding - Any Magistrate, whether Executive or Judicial, may at any time arrest or direct the arrest, in his presence, within his local jurisdiction, of any person for whose arrest he is competent at the time and in the circumstances to issue a warrant (section 44 CrPC)
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Political interference is a sad reality for Civil Services posts. However, this is not to say that the judicial officers don't face any pressure. a) Often, you will see that many lawyers in district courts don't respect the authority of judicial officers (I have heard of instances where lawyers have simply hurled abuses at a JMFC / CJM and challenged their authority in open court). b) Many well off parties don't respect the authority of even district judges (especially in civil cases) and advocates openly tell them they can pass whatever order they want and they will appeal against the order in higher courts.
Respond - Look at the difference - 1. AAPโs Uttam Nagar MLA Naresh Balyan saying that bureaucrats deserve to be thrashed for not doing their work (when boss of IAS get slap) 2. Just only wishing JM without permission - MP lawyer, jailed for sending birthday message to judge.
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the scope of a PCS-J member is limited to courtroom procedure and adjudication.
Responding - Where judges on deputation ? your home One brief of deputation post - Secretary General of SC India is equivalent post to Secretary to Govt. of India which is equal to Chief Secretary of State. Secretary General post is deputation post of District Judge. Also look at current Law Secretary of India. I hope i don't need to elaborate for other judges deputation. you got it
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people are claiming here that people passing the PCS J examination will become a HC judge by the age of 50-55 (which is completely debatable with hardly any evidence). Assuming it is true, the 25 years taken to reach that level by wading through the lower judiciary isn't worth it (see first four points on why that is so). Civil servants, on the other hand have a time based promotion (which may be a flawed policy but it is what it is) and each post performs a different function if you consider it in terms of a supply chain. The role of a DM is vastly different from a joint secretary and you will learn different things such as policy implementation, formulation at different stages of life. The journey to a Secretary is very fulfilling in each role and it's not like people are simply biding their time to get something better like it may be for PCS-J members.
Responding - Forget about HC Judges he is not comparable post with any IAS. It is equivalent post to Cabinet Minister of State. Come to subordinate judges, A judge become principal law secretary (equivalent to P.S. in IAS, second last post of IAS) when he is DJ cadre nearly 22-25 year of service whereas an IAS take nearly more than 26 year to become Secretary (lower post than P.S). Secretary General of SC within 25year of service but similar post Chief Secretary you have to earn for 30 year.
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There is a reason why the judiciary has not been able to the attract the brightest people getting into law. Unless an All India Judicial Services is created and modelled along the lines of IAS/IPS, the lower judiciary will unfortunately be something that people settle for if they are not able to clear the Civil Services Examination.
Sanctioned strength - IAS = 6, 396 Vacany - as per the government, there is a shortage of 1449 IAS (nearly 22%)
Sanctioned Strength of Judges = 24, 247 vacany = as per law ministry 4,929 (nearly 21%)
I am not criticizing UPSC and not indented to let moral of upsc down but true is true, have to accept.
Is that why many subordinate judges in India keep on writing UPSC exams?
Which subordinate judges writing for UPSC. Give name ? Go to Allahabad & ask many judicial coaching institutes they will tell you that they have IAS/IRS officers preparing for judicial service. Don't rummor wrong information just on hearsay.
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IAS is a class apart position, you cannot compare it a subordinate judge.
Here is the class see where boss of IAS slap in front of CM & their party leader statement - AAPโs Uttam Nagar MLA Naresh Balyan was also reported as saying that such bureaucrats deserve to be thrashed for not doing their work.
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The kind of power that an IAS holds is completely non-comparabale.
What kind of power they have which is non-comparable? Explain
Just read this your so called IAS power - In compliance of Gaya sub judge Sandeep Singhโs order, the official residence of Gaya district magistrate would be put on auction. The proclamation regarding the auction was paste at the residence on Thursday evening.
To get relief from this he approach to HC & later government was forced to pay the debt.
Lol yeah keep making non-sensical arguments about "they know India" and how NLU guys/girls shouldn't give PCSJ ๐ While NLU and non-NLU ppl will keep cracking those exams every year while you continue belonging to the category of advocates mentioned at 15.1 ๐
One can never equate the powers of the judiciary and the executive. The executive will always be the most powerful organ in day to day functioning. People from PCS-J background can always argue that a lower judiciary member has more power based on some misplaced notion of what real life power can mean. They often use these arguments to support their claim:
1. The CJM/JMFC can summon the DM/SP in his court but not vice-versa, 2. The executive can only implement Parliamentary law but it is courts which have the power to strike them down.
I would simply say that these arguments are very bookish in nature and do not reflect the ground realities whatsoever for the following reasons:
1. Area of influence / Discretion - The judicial members have no authority outside the courtroom and they usually struggle to get things done through contacts even for themselves (let alone others). The scope of discretion for a judicial member is extremely limited and they can step in only once a matter actually reaches a court. Unless someone wants to live in their own bubble, a common citizen is not really concerned about the DJ/CJM/JMFC of a district and they would rather be much more mindful of a IAS/IPS/IRS officer.
A DM/SP (even an Additional DM/ Deputy SP) is the nodal officer of the Central/State Government for that district and has enormous discretion in administering the district. Basically, they have the entire state machinery to themselves (for use/misuse) for practically doing anything since they control each and every sphere of policy implementation.
Again, this is simply a function of the organ you are working for - the executive or the judiciary. This is in no way meant to belittle the judiciary - the judiciary has its own function to perform and it's a very important organ of the government but one should be clear about what they are getting into.
2. Status - Political interference is a sad reality for Civil Services posts. However, this is not to say that the judicial officers don't face any pressure. a) Often, you will see that many lawyers in district courts don't respect the authority of judicial officers (I have heard of instances where lawyers have simply hurled abuses at a JMFC / CJM and challenged their authority in open court). b) Many well off parties don't respect the authority of even district judges (especially in civil cases) and advocates openly tell them they can pass whatever order they want and they will appeal against the order in higher courts.
Now, if we are comparing the worst outcome, there is either the option of listening to abuses from a MP / state / central minister or some random advocate of a district court. I guess I will go with the former option.
3. Postings - I think someone has already covered this point above very precisely. In the judiciary, unless you reach the position of a HC judge, you will always get remote postings. However, with civil services, that's not true. If you are an IAS/IPS, you can get urban postings after first 7-8 years (if you are IRS - then even sooner). While this is obviously a matter of personal preference, it cannot be denied that urban areas have more facilities and infrastructure than rural areas (health, education, leisure and entertainment etc.).
4. Work profile - As someone mentioned above, the work profile of a civil servant is much more varied and dynamic than a judge. Again, this is because of the inherent nature of the executive organ. It is supposed to undertake all the residual functions in administering a country. You have the opportunity to go on deputation to other departments or international organisations like UN, World Bank etc. On the other hand, the scope of a PCS-J member is limited to courtroom procedure and adjudication.
5. It's about the journey - People are claiming here that people passing the PCS J examination will become a HC judge by the age of 50-55 (which is completely debatable with hardly any evidence). Assuming it is true, the 25 years taken to reach that level by wading through the lower judiciary isn't worth it (see first four points on why that is so). Civil servants, on the other hand have a time based promotion (which may be a flawed policy but it is what it is) and each post performs a different function if you consider it in terms of a supply chain. The role of a DM is vastly different from a joint secretary and you will learn different things such as policy implementation, formulation at different stages of life. The journey to a Secretary is very fulfilling in each role and it's not like people are simply biding their time to get something better like it may be for PCS-J members.
Conclusion - There is a reason why the judiciary has not been able to the attract the brightest people getting into law. Unless an All India Judicial Services is created and modelled along the lines of IAS/IPS, the lower judiciary will unfortunately be something that people settle for if they are not able to clear the Civil Services Examination.
Is that why many subordinate judges in India keep on writing UPSC exams? IAS is a class apart position, you cannot compare it a subordinate judge. The kind of power that an IAS holds is completely non-comparabale.
Let me tell you what is the value of IAS in legal field.
1. I had done 2 internship one under Divisional Commissioner and another under CJM.
No one in the legal industry was interested in my internship under divisional commissioner but at same time when they know i have also done internship under CJM they took interest.
2. I have seen child of subordinate judge and IAS as I belong to DU, if you are child of judge everyone take interest in you but same not with IAS as very less will take interest.
3. During my graduation I had dream to be an IAS but one of the retired IAS who was alumni from our department has suggested me for the judicial service with number of pros and my personal research has made me join DU LLB.
4. Seriously I am telling you from my experience in legal field and non-field judges always get edge over IAS in term of value.
They would be better. Atleast less ego than you all NLU Private Corporate people. They will atleast hear a poor petitioner who doesn't know to write and speak in English rather than mocking then not for having a city English slang.
Besides, the sheer number of judges is a huge problem to accommodate judges. District judges alone number over 10 in any big district, whereas do you do not see 10 district collectors. Hence, the respect.
You are a 10 standard student. Respond to these question quick -
1. In which district has more than one district judge at head ? (do not include ADJ or Family Judge) 2. what is the meaning of Additional collectors ? 3. what is the meaning & purpose of additional post? 4. If problem in accommodation of judges than why India suffering from lack of judges ?
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Wow ! Such a nice detailed response. Hope you understood the intent of the author of the post.
The author has very correctly responded to your question. That is called answering.
Wow ! Such a nice detailed response. Hope you understood the intent of the author of the post. Even the chief ministers of many states are driven around in an innova. This also includes many justices and chief justices. This does not make collectors superior. I meant to refer to the general perception of the public and the government, which places civil servants notches above, since they clear a national level examination.
Besides, the sheer number of judges is a huge problem to accommodate judges. District judges alone number over 10 in any big district, whereas do you do not see 10 district collectors. Hence, the respect.
Well, thanks but no thanks. I do not agree with anything you've said on this thread (or the way you've said it). I'd rather not have fans than have you as one.
Who are you atleast take some other name? and why are responding on my comments? Atleast take some other fake name. Fake name bhi copy karna hai.
if one has to approach the SC to make sure they get the "right" judgement, then you admit that 'lower' judiciary is not doing it's job of "protecting the rights", as you had claimed.
Are aap kehna kya chahte ho. SC Judiciary se lower judiciary par aagye. hahahaha. Please atleast do read the letter forwarded by that 5 year old child about judiciary it is quite sufficient to your arguments. I don't think any further discussion.
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Also, as far as your concern regarding the other person mentioning overruled judgements - they are overruled NOW, but they were good law a short while ago, and were clear instances of judiciary NOT protecting people's rights. That's how your point gets defeated.
1. Please tell me who has overruled that judgements. you or government or that judiciary ? 2. Upholding of many FRs, curtailing many action of government, also in Covid time taking such action and many more. who has done that. you or government or that judiciary?
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As someone who has been spectating this thread for a while - you're clearly putting in too much energy for anyone to even attempt to engage with you for more than two comments.
1. "Please continue your preparation, you still have a long way to go" for this reason I am commenting to make you under stand that you need this. hahahaha. 2. Yes my energy is getting waste in laughing when I read your comments who just by citing overruled cases and many more. please continue I have full time to respond. hahahaha
Well, thanks but no thanks. I do not agree with anything you've said on this thread (or the way you've said it). I'd rather not have fans than have you as one.
I request Legally India readers- wealthy law firmites from expensive private college, to not attempt PCSJ. You all have the resources to Crack these exams easily.
Most of you don't know anything about real India, outside big cities and big offices..
Most of you won't be able to deal with poorest of Indians. This comment will get lot of down votes.
But you guys are the type of people who will become a Magistrate and deny bail because the advocate representing the poor man has bad English or doesn't have the City Slang you have.
So what about advocates who just by with bare acts, notes took in the exam and passed the bar exam and later file cases u/s 66A of IT Act which repealed by SC. Grow up bro
So equivalence drawn from the car one is chauffeured around in? Then let me throw you a different one: until some time ago (pre-2015/16 I think), SC judges were being driven around in Toyota Corollas, while Delhi HC had Skoda Superbs. So Delhi HC judges were "placed" above SC, as per your logic?
DMs in Delhi have Ciaz. Secretaries to Govt. of India also have Ciaz. Same ho gaye?
If I shell out a few million rupees and buy myself a Kia carnival, I'm "placed on par" then?
Why this arbitrary measure of comparison?
What a savage respond. destroyed him completely. I am now your fan
As someone who has been spectating this thread for a while - you're clearly putting in too much energy for anyone to even attempt to engage with you for more than two comments.
For what it's worth, let me just tell you that your understanding of sub-judice is wrong. And if one has to approach the SC to make sure they get the "right" judgement, then you admit that 'lower' judiciary is not doing it's job of "protecting the rights", as you had claimed.
Also, as far as your concern regarding the other person mentioning overruled judgements - they are overruled NOW, but they were good law a short while ago, and were clear instances of judiciary NOT protecting people's rights. That's how your point gets defeated.
Please continue your preparation, you still have a long way to go.
If your response to a judgement that clearly infringes upon one's rights is that the Petitioner has the "right to approach apex court", I don't think any further engagement is required
Response - Dear, let me tell you first the title "jholachap wakil" fit on you and second thing- 1. till the last appeal subsist, the decision of court not called as final & binding. It is called as sub judice. 2. decision become final only either no appeal proceed or appeal disposed off 3. appeal is a right as in every case one party hurt with the decision 4. if she waive up her right this mean she has accepted with her consent that decision is right.
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On a sidenote, I wonder how this comment passed through moderation given the clear ad hominems
Because, it responded correctly to your arguments. haahahaha
So equivalence drawn from the car one is chauffeured around in? Then let me throw you a different one: until some time ago (pre-2015/16 I think), SC judges were being driven around in Toyota Corollas, while Delhi HC had Skoda Superbs. So Delhi HC judges were "placed" above SC, as per your logic?
DMs in Delhi have Ciaz. Secretaries to Govt. of India also have Ciaz. Same ho gaye?
If I shell out a few million rupees and buy myself a Kia carnival, I'm "placed on par" then?
I request Legally India readers- wealthy law firmites from expensive private college, to not attempt PCSJ. You all have the resources to Crack these exams easily.
Most of you don't know anything about real India, outside big cities and big offices..
Most of you won't be able to deal with poorest of Indians. This comment will get lot of down votes.
But you guys are the type of people who will become a Magistrate and deny bail because the advocate representing the poor man has bad English or doesn't have the City Slang you have.
A civil judge does not get to drive a kia carnival, but a collector does. Check with the Telangana government for this. While the ap government gives karnival to hc judges, Telangana does it for collectors, placing them on par with the judges of a high court.
Let me vaguely reference one regardless: One of the Chief Secy. of Delhi had access to a senior SC judge (being posted in the Capital has its perks!).
How poor is that still, one politician has slap that Chief Secretary of Delhi (1986 batch) in front of CM & he couldn't do anything & that politician enjoying like king even he was not minister. Says enough. Hahahaha
AAPโs Uttam Nagar MLA Naresh Balyan was also reported as saying that such bureaucrats deserve to be thrashed for not doing their work.
Haters will 100% object this comment rather than responding.
Please give time to read this (hahahaha).....
Mayawati as chief minister of Uttar Pradesh was the unchallenged transfer queen. She also takes pride in that power. In a โWalk The Talkโ interview with me in 2005, she boasted about this. When she first met her mentor Kanshi Ram (who lay in coma on the first floor of her Humayun Road home where we were recording), she was preparing to compete for the IAS. Kanshi Ram told her not to bother and join politics with him instead. โYou want to become an IAS,โ he said, โI will make you somebody IAS officers will run around.โ Kanshi Ram lived up to his promise. So did Behenji in giving her officers the runaround. At one of her 2007 election meetings in Badaun, we heard her boast to her cheering crowd: โBureaucracy mere naam se thhar-thhar kaampti hai,โ (the bureaucracy trembles at the very mention of my name).
P.S.: I have no disrespect with IAS officer as I am also a upsc aspirant but I can't take fake appraisal. so i added.
Respond - The reason for this order "It is not mere case of falling in love but two students taking the drastic step of eloping and living together without even contracting a marriageโฆ managementโs concern to ensure discipline in educational institution cannot be brushed asideโ. However she still have right to approach apex court.
If your response to a judgement that clearly infringes upon one's rights is that the Petitioner has the "right to approach apex court", I don't think any further engagement is required.
On a sidenote, I wonder how this comment passed through moderation given the clear ad hominems
"SC orders removal of slums from Aravalli forest land in Haryanaโs Faridabad" hindustantimes.com/.../...'s%20Faridabad,-The%20top%20court&text=The%20Supreme%20Court%20on%20Monday,or%20concession%20on%20forest%20land.
Respond - The reason for this order "the forest land is completely cleared of encroachment. This being forest land, there can be no concession or compromise".
Respond - The reason for this order "It is not mere case of falling in love but two students taking the drastic step of eloping and living together without even contracting a marriageโฆ managementโs concern to ensure discipline in educational institution cannot be brushed asideโ. However she still have right to approach apex court.
Respond - How it show that it is against the right of people. Kindly elaborate.
Sorry I don't have much time to respond all links as from the above links you proved that you are connected to legal field but you are a dumb legal professional. Even don't know how to respond. hahahaha
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Do I mention ADM Jabalpur here or are we cool about it now? How about Suresh Koushal? Months-long adjournment for Delhi riots cases when the riots were happening? Or the "stop the violence and then we will see" attitude?
Respond - Till above I was thinking that you are dumb but at this question I have sympathy for your parents, who spend their earning for such dumb who cites over ruled cases and asking how does it not affect. Why their is no laughing emojis here. God I can't stop my laughing.
Ok let's comes to the point. look how to respond. A simple brief will explain how judiciary is protecting our rights. I will just cite one which will be enough I hope.
1. A Class 5 student from Kerala has written to Chief Justice of India Justice NV Ramana, thanking the Supreme Court for its intervention and addressing issues related to the raging coronavirus pandemic in the country. she says she was "happy and proud" of the Supreme Courtโs orders regarding oxygen supply in the country, especially in Delhi.
My simple suggestion
Please at least read before cite. Thank to god here for answering no identities require otherwise. Hahahaahaha
1. One service (judiciary) always fight for right of people and stand for them whereas another service always stands with their action of their uneducated boss rather than actual duty. Just remember one think it is the judiciary because of whom we are exercising our freedom otherwise just read only repealed amendments in FRs you will understand which is good.
"How An Indian Stand Up Comic Found Himself Arrested for a Joke He Didn't Tell" https://time.com/5938047/munawar-iqbal-faruqui-comedian-india/ (Yes, he got bail, but from the Supreme Court - not the Magistrate, the Sessions or the High Court. So much for fighting for rights of people)
Do I mention ADM Jabalpur here or are we cool about it now? How about Suresh Koushal? Months-long adjournment for Delhi riots cases when the riots were happening? Or the "stop the violence and then we will see" attitude?
what a shame that users are comparing judiciary with upsc. 1. One service (judiciary) always fight for right of people and stand for them whereas another service always stands with their action of their uneducated boss rather than actual duty. Just remember one think it is the judiciary because of whom we are exercising our freedom otherwise just read only repealed amendments in FRs you will understand which is good.
2. What do with such service when you work hard but from beginning to till in service have to work under the umbrella of uneducated. I have seen how a uneducated politicians (even he was not minister) scolded in very dirty way to ACS rank officer and he just listening with his head down. Their are number of videos on youtube of such type. Although they Civil Servant i.e., "Naukar shah". Their are number of retired or resigned IAS officers videos on youtube (go and check) how they are criticizing the naukar shahi prampara. latest example Mumbai & Bengal tussle.
3. On the other side Judiciary, highly respectable, similar hard study required as like UPSC but difference is work culture here to work without any external fear and independently. Example how an ADJ rank officer pull down the then existing CM Jaylalita of his own state from the post and charged her with legal consequences even because of that lower judiciary an existing CM of MP was forced to leave her post and after that she was never become CM. This is why a judge never called as "Naukar Shah" but a true public servant.
4. Although civil servants may have better facilities but เคเคฌ เคเคคเคจเคพ เคชเฅ เคฒเคฟเค เคเคฐ เค เคจเคชเฅเฅ เคเฅ เคคเคฒเคตเฅ เคเคพเคเฅ เคเค เคคเฅ เคฎเฅเค เค เคเฅเคเฅ เคนเฅ เคฎเคฟเคฒเฅ gi.
5. These points are enough to differentiate which service is best.
Conclusion
The moral is that choose service where you get respect from your own soul first.
Both of them have horrible Transfers within a state. So how will your spouce live with you?
The Transfers are mostly to [...] poor villages with 19th century infrastructure where there will be no good jobs for her/him (IT/Finance/HR/Law)
Transfers means most Judicial Services Officers marry [...] (No offence against any woman who doesn't go to work or is educated less. I was trying to make a different point altogether)
IAS Officers atleast have a transfer policy where if he get a Civil Service Spouce they will be transferred together. There is nothing like that for PCSJ. If a guy gets a Civil Services Colleague atleast he can go to home and have a nice time - spend time with a smart human being.
You may think a [...] not so educated girl is good. But it becomes dull and boring in a few years. You may get to take big decisions and have a say in any decision in your house. But you are never going to get any good insight or someone who can solve your problems.
Already you are surrounded by yes men and sycophants with whom you can't have a conversation. A wife also like your peon makes life miserable. Atleast most guys in National Law Universities/ and from Big Cities prefer intelligent and educated girls with well paying jobs [...].
You won't/have a hard time getting an educated and intelligent spouce. It's unfair to expect a highly educated partner to sit at home and raise kids. Especially when your job itself is super relaxed and stress free.
How will you manage your married/love life? Especially if you are from a big city and good law school. You won't get your expectations.
Dear wutter, from your writing it can be depict that you are probably a freelancer and quoting "your 50% litigation"
First of all the fear you are talking about is called departmental action and its common fear. But here discussion is fearing of judiciary. One of my relative was in police service and recently retired from post DSP (Home guard) let me till you court fear which he share me far back when he was a senior police inspector. He said "department action se bachna asan hai comparatively court action se Q ki department mai pehchaan hai or pairvi kaam aa jati hai par court mai nhi" when he was contempt by court but the judge was kind accept his plea.
1. You itself compare which is better, If at age 50, one become HC judges it is very good comparatively if at such age a person only reach upto the joint secretary which is worst.
2. Convoy is not a matter of right it is a matter of security. so it may be vary person to person. go and check Gujarat, Maharashtra and few other states where CS/ACS whom you are talking only get 2-3 number of vehicle in their convoy. But don't say HC Judges also get same, their convoy more than CS/ACS in that states specially I personally seen both.
3. convoy for CS/ACS only in official duty not available during off-duty but HC Judges also entitle on off-duty purpose.
4. Helicopter run on fuel not mere on your writing and it cost in lakhs for hour so states are not dumb to let you use helicopter for off-duty.
5. On duty everyone entitle A+ Class facility so if compare then do with off-duty perks.
Oh what a brilliant logic! means number of seats & person taking exam decide its competitiveness. hahaha ! means Indian railway group c & d post have largest number candidate so it is competitive.
Children of IAS not able to crack IAS become judge ! Oh god can't stop my self from laughing (kindly don't take it personally but read your comment first man). Also principal comment stated "IAS child become judge" so in counter you have to prove judges child but you are saying lawyer (please don't say that lawyers are now judges otherwise I'll mad by laughing). Second thing can you justify how lower judiciary cannot over IAS?
I mean, people used to scare others by saying 'police', but it doesn't work now, especially in the wealthy households. I mean, people know that the police has limited powers, what can a police officer even do? A rich person can easily get a bail order in a day. The court may grant an anticipatory bail, and then the investigation is virtually over. If you take the example of the INX media case, no police SP or DCP had the courage to arrest PC Chidambaram, until a Supreme court justice personally ordered the arrest. No factory owner would be afraid of a DM order, he would get it quashed by a writ petition in a day or two, I've heard many such cases. Yeah whatever be the case, but an acquittal order or a bail order once given, the police merely has to leave the person.
Maybe once you reach a certain position in litigation, you can have regular interactions with the judges??!! A good lawyer knows the law A great lawyer knows the judge period
This goes to you (9.1.1) as well as 9.1.2 - since both of you probably the same person anyway I am aware of the legal differences between their powers. I was responding specifically to "who the police is more afraid of" comment. Powers to suspend people still lies with the SP/IG, you know. Speak to some cops about who they'd fear more, you'll know what I'm saying. Also, for what it's worth, if you think an SP cannot take cognisance of an offence, I'd urge you to read 154(3) CrPC; as for confessions, under specific Acts, they're covered. NDPS and all. But all that is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Comparing the specific legal powers is comparing apples to oranges.
And yes, executive "merely has to implement the law", but again, the question was who would the police-wallah be more afraid of. Let me put it differently: you think a factory-owner would be more obliging to the local SHO or to a DJ(Comm.)? There lies your answer.
About 50% of my litigation involves criminal law, and it involves regular interactions with the cops and senior bureaucrats. :)
I do not wish to come across to mean that judges are inferior, so don't let that get into your way of exam prep.
I guess a lot of this support for UPSC comes from the fact that we have internalized and glorified civil servants, thus we tend to see these people as highly connected and very influential, not entirely true, I have known people in the Civil Services not having enough discretion or independence to take independent action while at the same time barely trying to catch up with their peer after retirement. Also IAS is has in the last few years become really overrated, the LBSNAA's curriculum is not particularly rigorous compared to the academically grueling course at DJS.
Let me also tell you one thing. Once a DM passes an order or policy, it can be struck down as unconstitutional or overreach of power by the district judge( study the law then argue ) But if a district court judge passes a ruling or order, the DM cannot overturn it, but is obliged to follow it. When the parliament/state legislature passes an act, the DM has to enforce it and cannot refuse to do so. It can only be challenged in a court of law, which may quash the law as unconstitutional or can quash certain parts. The DM has to follow accordingly. You see a nation runs on Legislature vs Judiciary( checks and balances) The executive merely has to implement the law.
Figure something out!!! Are you out of your head!? Go and ask a police officer and he will tell you, that a contempt notice is worst that death. A senior officer cannot transfer a police officer out of town(state govt), they are bound by the court once the fir is filed. A DM or SP cannot take cognizance of an offence, nor can confessions to them be enforced in court, they cannot admit evidence, cannot order trial, cannot control trial, cannot convict. They cannot order further investigation, or addition of new evidence When the legislature formulates a law, they merely have to implement them by policies and rules, they cannot question the law and strike it down as unconstitutional.
1. You have to wait for 50 to become a HC judge too, so that point fades away. (45, officially, unless you're Arun Mishra's brother).
2. The guy above you was talking about perks. On paper, a HC judge is slightly above, yes. Can summon the Secretary too, yes. But let's see the perks. The CS and Addl. CS posted in 'right' departments have convoys bigger than HC judges (many judges have none, rather). Access to helicopters for inter-district/state travel. The entire state machinery for you to (mis)use.
3. There is no point in discussing who has more "power" - that thing basically boils down to the network and clout the individual carries. People get (and are getting) bullied on both sides. There are so many real life examples, that unfortunately can't really be discussed openly on LI. :) Let me vaguely reference one regardless: One of the Chief Secy. of Delhi had access to a senior SC judge (being posted in the Capital has its perks!). Best to leave it here for you to figure out the implications of that.
I should be working sigh But anyway, here it goes.
The answer, as is typical with us lawyers, is that it depends. A, on what you want. B, where you're located. And C, where you're coming from.
For the purposes of this answer, I'm speaking in context of lower judicial services and the IAS/IPS. No point speaking of IRS/IDAS/Whatever - there are too many varying factors. Foremost being that they are not limited by any cadre; judicial services are limited to your state. Also, my answer is mostly Delhi-specific.
What do you want?
The work culture, the lifestyle, everything is very different. An entry level IAS/IPS officer posted in district (as opposed to HQ/Secretariat) - SDM/DM/ACP/DCP - gets a car with a beacon, a PSO, cars with huge boards saying 'District Magistrate' or a flag on the bonnet. Typical things that an IAS aspirant thinks of. You know what I mean.
Not so with judges. In Delhi, entry-level judicial officers don't have any official vehicles to take them from home to court. Go to Tis Hazari judges parking, you'll see i10s and Swifts with a judge sticker on them. Now I'm not saying it's a bad thing, or that everyone should aim for that laal batti. But know what you want, what you're getting into. I've seen judicial officers get visible agitated and frustrated simply because an IAS officer (who they believe to be inferior in rank) gets more perks. Judges in Delhi also don't get PSOs, drivers. On some days, not enough stenographers even. It's tough to manage work that way. In other states, however, I've heard judges through all the ranks get a driver-cum-PSO at least.
On the other hand, judges have far more relaxed work timings. Court starts at 10 in Delhi (in other states, don't bother coming before 11/11:30), you wind up by 3-ish, do chamber work/prepare for next day, go home. Not so for an IAS/IPS posted in district. You're basically on duty 24x7. Reaching home at 9PM, and immediately rushing back to work at 9:30 because of an emergency is not uncommon, especially in IPS.
The actual work that you have to do is very different too. A district posting is basically crisis management all of the time. You're always running, having meetings, trying to solve some thing or the other (except in the occasional times when things are relaxed between crises). In a non-district posting as well, it's a desk-job but still it is common to have frequent travel (for meetings), and last-minute work (say, because your predecessor forgot to prepare a status report for the case listed in HC tomorrow, and now you're calling different HODs at 7PM trying to get the relevant documents from them). On the other hand, as a judge, you sit and adjudicate cases all day. It can get boring and dull. Evidence being recorded for hours and hours straight. Sub-par arguments that you HAVE to listen because the guy arguing is the Bar President. Same thing day-in-day-out. So it really depends on your aptitude.
Big establishments (luxury hotels, businesses, hospitals) also oblige you if you're an IAS/IPS. Judges, not so much (and really, think about it, there are over 150 DJS officers posted in just Tis Hazari alone; there are five other court complexes in Delhi, whereas there are less than 20 DCPs.) However, when an IAS/IPS is summoned to court, he'll have to listen to whatever absurd rant the judge goes on with a bowed head and (figuratively) folded hands. It's not uncommon for a 20-something M.M. to be scolding a 40+ ACP/DCP, often unnecessarily. As an IPS officer, you have to live with it. So again, know what you're getting into, what your motivations are. Not knowing this will just lead to frustration, and you'll never really be happy with whatever you get into.
Where are you located? Court infrastructure is minimal outside Delhi. I've been to subordinate courts outside Delhi, and courts of even ASJs and Special Judges (CBI) don't have working computers. A stenographer writes by hand the evidence that gets recorded. On the other hand, Delhi district courts are quite advanced infrastructurally.
On the other hand, judges have more respect/power in states outside Delhi. There will be huge sign boards simply saying "District Judge Residence" - if that's any signifier of where things stand by comparison. In Delhi no one cares/knows where you live. And it makes sense also, if you think of it. In Delhi, there are 11 District Judges, and the HC and SC are also here. In a state, there's no one above the DJ in that particular district. So unless the administrative judge is visiting, you're the king. At the same time, there is greater attempts at political interference as well in states.
Promotions also differ. Some lower judicial services officers in Delhi will never reach become the DJ, let alone a HC judge. Forget about it. On the other hand, in some states (do your research), the promotions are faster and it's much more streamlined.
Where are you coming from? I know of people whose parents are IAS/IPS (direct as well as promotee) who did not appear for subordinate judiciary exams because they believed it to be "beneath" them. Now, I don't mean to demean the noble job, but it's a genuine perception. They wish to move "up in the ladder" and joining lower judicial services meant a stagnation for them, socially. Their friends, similarly placed socially because of the background, would be "higher up in the society." For e.g., the friend whose father is a HC judge would be elevated from the Bar and become his boss. If you feel this kind of thinking could creep into your mind, make sure you factor this in while making any decision.
------
Lastly, as far as your comment that judges remain in touch with law while civil servants don't, that's only partly true. While the exposure to law won't be as much as a judge, a civil servant does remain in touch. When posted in district, IPC, CrPC, CPC and a number of other (major) Acts are regularly used. And if you're an IPS, all the criminal statutes, obviously. When posted in HQ/Secretariat, you're in touch with a number of other things - service law, for e.g., will always be there. If you're in a municipal corporation, the municipal laws; if deputed to some special department, the relevant laws there.
It's interesting to see people determine how they are going to spend 30-40 years (almost 70% of active adult life), depending upon what sounds better and more prestigious to others.
Purely evaluating the two career choices on the basis of the lives that you will live:
1. Judicial services (excluding Delhi Judiciary): You'll spend the majority of your life in a remote district, in a dilapidated courtroom with slow creaking fan, with two sycophant clerks and a bunch of lawyers who care more about making 20k a month than the law itself. Yes, there will be the occasional pride when you travel 300 kms once in six months to attend a family but the rest of the time, whose validation are you really looking for? Your driver, peon and clerk? Even if their validation gets you off for a few years, post that it is the monotony of life that shall prevail. With no friends (the close ones is far off cities, the new ones who are too awkward around you to be friends), no fun, no life outside the 2 acre government quarter. And if you're not married, no sex. (Try having an active sex life without a marriage as a judge and your career finish before you do.) At the end, you'll become a HC judge when you're 50 years old. But alas, 10 years of writing boring sectional judgements and templated orders for dull lawyers, you've lost your flair and passion for law to contribute anything meaningful in your 50s. Yes, you earned a lakh more than your peers in the civil services. But at what cost?
2. UPSC (equating only to IAS and may be, IPS): The first 7-10 years of your life would pretty much be the same (except for the occasional law and order situations when you 'feel' your impact and the regular district tours that make you realise 'India lives in its villages'). Post that the difference kicks in. You come to the state capital, head an entire department as the Secretary when you're in your late 30s/early 40s. Since you live in the capital city, your weekends will be better and your kids will go to better schools. Your FOMO about your other friends glamorous lives wouldn't be as much. Your career will remain interesting for the next 10 years as you frame policies, execute them over different departments (like a new job every 2 years). 45-50 years, and you'll be on your way to the national capital. This is the peak of the curve that you finally get to enjoy. Being in the heart of policy making of the country, calling the shots. While a HC judge may technically be higher than you in protocol, you know you are the man in the power corridor who can get sh*t done! Even if you retire at this point, you'd find a private sector job with more than a crore a year package or may be, end up working for the UN or the World Bank - thanks to your 30-40 years of diverse administrative experience in running the country and not just writing judgements your entire life.
So, yes. The two career paths are comparable to a certain point - for the first 10 years perhaps. Towards the end, one may end up on a higher protocol position (HC or SC judge) than the other. But you can't read the introduction and conclusion alone and say you've finished the book. Read every page of it. Make each page count. Just like you would do with each day of life.
Quite an uninformed response, I must say. Police officers are more scared of their SP/DCP (and in states, DMs as well) than judicial officers. Court ko toh you will apologise, go to the appellate court, figure something out. The SP/DM would make your life miserable.
Haha ask any police officer what they are most afraid of, an IASs order, or a judicial order, not following the court orders have serious implications....contempt notices for constitutional courts like the HC or SC
Guys why don't you check the ages of our secretaries, the cabinet secretary, prinicipal secretaries, joint secretaries, and see the number. And for those who dont know, there is only 1 cab sec, only a very few prestigious constitutional posts reserved(nominated by) for those close to the political leadership. Now just like the elevation system, there is a lateral entry system from the private sector which is more preferred due to extra skills and talents.
You guys are totally nuts, saying HC judge and SC judge like its some random joint secretary in a random department. You should know the law, which says that a HC judge is even higher than an MP and the chief justice is higher than the Cabinet ministers of a state in the order of precedence. Plus, these are constitutional bodies. And you have to wait till 50 to be a joint secretary also, let me make it clear
Till the All India Judicial Service is established, there is not even a doubt that the civil service through the UPSC (IAS/IPS, not random Indian Defence Estates Service obviously) is leagues ahead. Because, even post the 2002 SC judgement on promotions, one can hope to be a HC judge earliest into one's 50s. And from there, a Chief Justice/Supreme Court elevation is practically miniscule. On the other hand, an IAS officer is guaranteed to be Prl Secy/ACS in most states or Secy to Govt of India (both of which carry more weight, perks, and power than most High Court judges). A significant number from every batch would even ascend to high constitutional offices, senior and civil service positions (Cabinet Secretary, Home Secretary etc). No judicial service recruit has any comparable prospects.
If and when a well thought out AIJS is set up, things may change. But as they stand, even top NLU grads prefer corp firms/litigation rather than being in the subordinate judiciary. A faster way to the HC bench would be to be elevated in your 40s after you've set up a good practice at a top HC.
You're again kidding me. Competitiveness of any exam is determined by the number of available seats and the number of people taking it. Just compare. Don't sell bullshit.
Lame logic. Children of IAS unable to crack IAS may go to judiciary. And I personally know many IAS lawyer kids who are now IAS/IPS. HC judge or SC judge is fine. But lower judiciary over IAS? You're kidding me?
No ! Completely wrong fact. Judiciary is also competitive Group A exams. Just think, if such above fact true then the success ratio of judiciary would not below 0.1% like UPSC. Both are tough & easy (depend on your preparation) as both demand different way & style of answer writing.
Many IAS officers (even in rank of Chief Secretary) Children are currently in Judicial Services. Even I've seen UPSC selected candidates who found judiciary much better option than Civil Services but due to law degree barrier they forced to keep their steps back.
A young talented brain will still choose civil services because it gives you vast opportunities right from the year you enter. While, you have to wait till the age of at least 50 to become a HC judge.
Yes, in past times judicial officers generally used to retire as district judge as promotion system was extremely pathetic. However, with 2002 judgment of Supreme Court, promotion of judges has been efficiently streamlined. Now, 75% of vacancies of ADJs are filled through promotion of civil judges. Most of the new crop of judicial officers is getting promoted as ADJ within 11-14 years of their service. In high court elevation also, atleast 50% vacancies are now filled through promotion of district judges. In recent elevations you can see that 2 out of ever 3 persons elevated to high court are district judges rather than elecation from bar.
The effect of 2002 judgment is yet to become visible. However, I am sure that if a law student enters judiciary in young age (less than 25), in most probability he will retire as a high court judge. I think that makes judiciary an equally lucrative option as UPSC.
You're making a bad comparison. A judicial officer applying for LLM (on study leave) will still be a judicial officer. While someone applying for civil services, strives to change the career itself. Also, when as a fresher you enter the judiciary trough judicial services exam, in all probability you will retire as a district judge. Not may young (and talented) people find that a great option. But then, everybody has his own.
That isnt a good justification. I know a few judicial officers who applied to Oxbridge/Harvard for LLM but didn't get into. They worked hard on their application still could not make it. Does this mean that Oxbridge LLM is way better than judicial services?
Nobody cares of you have an LLM but people respect you hell of a lot if you are a judge.
"Plus, the hot girl who ignored you in college will be chasing you." These are some really misplaced priorities. If you want to crack the UPSC exam, do it for your own sake, not to assauge your lack of self worth.
Many of the law students remain confused if Judiciary or UPSC is a better option to puruse. While UPSC comes with a lot of fame, judiciary offer better pay and lets you remain in touch with law. Also, promotions have been made very streamlined in judiciary and increasingly judicial officers are elevated to High courts as well. UPSC has its own perks.
We hear a lot of times that Judiciary isnt a bright career option. However, I dont think there is anything not good about it.
Could you all please share your thoughts how good is judiciary as a career option for a good law student?
But if we talk in real sense (on the ground of records as evidence ), tell me even a single IAS officer raising his or her voice (donโt even think about scolding) against the lowest judicial officer. While everyday so many judges are scolding and teaching so many IAS officers.
Still it is a subjective choice according to emotions, personality and life goals.
Let me first tell you that I am neither an aspirant nor even preparing for PCS(J), I belong to a entrepreneur background but need to say something....On papers, CJI is powerful than PM but we all know who enjoys the real power.....In nation like India Executives enjoys slightly more powers than judiciary obviously not legal but we all know the fact !
If you are not preparing for PCS(J) there is very high probability that you don't know the name of Judge of your own state's highcourt but the name of your town's SDM is very popular among all because we all need them every single day !
Solid argument, 10/10 logic. Zero fallacies spotted. Perfect command over language.
No one, who has cracked prestigious Judicial Services, ever willing to do UPSC,,,, baseless points you are making!!
So, โฎโฎโฎ and keep doing your own work!!
On the contrary I think the guy was serious about it, not trolling.
Can't believe that sentence is followed by "study the law then argue" lmao
Quality of our law schools really is bad.
In fact many retired IAS officers have even narrated a few incidents regarding this in their interviews and memoirs. Personally know a couple of them too. Again, this is at CS/ACS level.
Also, read that in context of everything else 7.1 states, particularly:
Quote:
What a rollercoaster of a thread though. Solid use of court vacations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpJVvk3nwN4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGinNz4F9kU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVya2GqtmQk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRjoCZDMa38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGinNz4F9kU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVya2GqtmQk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpJVvk3nwN4
Inshort, a DJ rank officer wherever posted can never become senior or equal to HC Judge in service. HC holds totally administrative control over it.
Thus it is a clear proof that Sec. to GoI in no way to compare with HC Judges.
Also It is an Irony that IAS officers below to pay matrix 17 cannot be depute on the post equivalent to Sec. to GoI but District Judge belong to pay matrix 13 to 15 and posted in the level of Sec. to GoI.
Current Secretary General of SC was in the level of pay matrix 14 i.e., in Selection Grade when he was posted & hold status of Sec. to GoI.
What kind of measure is this?
But even if we ignore the overruled judgements, the OP also cited pending cases - for e.g. the habeas corpus petitions which have/had been pending for way long that acceptable in a civilised society. You may worship judiciary with a blind faith, sir; we, the actual lawyers who care about the institution and this country cannot. We criticise because we hold it accountable at better standards, and we want the institution to improve. Criticism strengthens it. Blind worship destroys it. So if you're actually serious about judiciary or pursuing the legal profession at all, please for the love of god go back to your jurisprudence books and READ.
Quote: False dilemma fallacy.
To break it down for you, your statement assumes that someone is fighting for you, and if it's not judiciary, it's the executive. Have you considered the possibility that, well, no one is fighting for the people?
Quote: Fallacy of composition.
Quote: Ad hominem.
Quote: Whoooosh. Serious comprehension issues.
Acrdng 2u if Judiciary is not fgtng dn who ?
ur govt. ? or ur IAS/IPS ? ๐คฃ๐คฃ
Is ur any close member went to hospital during 2wave & struggled for oxygen, 100% not. That's y u r shitties hre 4 judiciary. Go & ask any1 (who suffered) dt whtr judiciary role impacted or not.
Just u've nvr get judgements in ur favour doesn't mean judiciary is nt fghtng. Do also visit d +ve rulings. Then argue.
Quote: Here I am Mr., the harbingers of justice. I visit Tis Hazari regularly & also to other courts. Wht is thr ? Tell me.
But what this man is telling is true. I have never seen a talented person from a Top NLU preparing for PCSJ or Judicial Exams. It's the reality thou.
Even if you go to lower NLU's like NLU Assam, DSNLU - Vizag. Only the ones who don't have any extra curricular activities or any chance for a PPO go for Judicial Services.
Even in local small law colleges the talented ones go for Litigation. Even there, only those who are good for nothing prepare for Judicial Exams.
Legally India commentators unnecessarily praise Litigation and PCSJ, because the grass is always greener on the other side. They feel everything is more relaxed than at a law firm.
Also, you are still making the same spelling & grammatical mistakes by which everyone has identified you earlier.
So It make me understand that judicial internship in Law has high & special value.
https://www.barandbench.com/news/litigation/sessions-court-bail-plea-unaware-magistrate-ph-high-court
Solid work fighting for "right" of the people here.
Ok not at all everyone has problem. Wait I clear your doubt.
Law Schools refer to those colleges which offer other courses too which either directly or indirectly relate to law where as Law college refer to those which only offer law courses. There are number of NLUs which offer other courses so all national law universities collectively called as NLS.
Quote: Response -
1. Mohit : RJS
2. Saumya : DJS
3. Swati : DJS
would I cite more or its enough ? Also NLU Nagpur has started special courses for judicial service.
Please read this taken from news paper - Students from NLUs are more driven towards judicial services. Most of the batches preparing for the services, crack the Provincial Civil Service-Judicial Exam (PCS J).
I hope you got your answer.
Quote: CLAT & AILET is tough ? who told you? Ok you are not believing me, than just ask any of your friend who clear clat or search on internet.
English centric? Last year from two students of my village had cracked this exam. They never went for any top English school.
Quote: Quote: Are yar ek bar post padh bhi liya karo hath jorta hu. He already gave disclaimer. Now its prove that he is from NLU becuase this is called thinking skill who give answer before asking. I have shared him the post to answer when you ask for NLS views.
Concern
This thread is for UPSC & Judiciary and not for NLUs verification. If you don't have answer on UPSC & Judiciary than please keep quite.
Disclaimer - Now don't say that NLS & DU students not have such time to such answer this, xyz silly response. We were have three days vacation from Sat-Mon & so we are here to respond.
You are definitely not a student of any NLU, let alone NLS or NLUD which are probably the two hardest NLUs to get into. I know this because the students of these two universities (and for that matter all NLUs) know the correct abbreviations to use while referring to law universities, and also because a person with your level of fluency in English could never have made it to these two universities, even from a reserved category. CLAT and AILET are English-centric exams and the competition is just too damn high for anyone to crack them with such a poor command over English. I am not attacking you over your poor understanding of the English language, we all come from different backgrounds and not everyone is privileged enough to have attended a posh English medium school. But you are not fooling anyone here by trying to pass yourself off as an NLS or NLUD student.
Also, you're replying to two different people. You realise that, right?
Must respond to my question awaiting for you response.
Quote: Should I laugh or have sympathy for you. Ok both. I know you are 10 yr child so i just share you full form of both -
1.National Law University of Delhi abbreviated as NLU-D
2. National Law Schools (mean when we talk about all National Law Schools then we denote with NLS) abbreviated as NLS
Now go read again my post with these full form.
From next time I will write full form of everything. It is said "don't judge book by it cover "but at same time also said "everything have some exception" in this exception applying and "judging your knowledge by its your posts".
Quote: 1. Are you confused in yourself, in some thread you are not accepting me NLU student (I draw this assumption from your posts) and here citing me as LLM graduate. Hahahahahaa
2. Again I am telling you use internet & just read how to purse LLM in NLU-D it is not like halwa puri that you apply like private school & get NLU-D
3. Also I've done 5yr course from there dear.
4. Why only LLM graduates would go? Is Judiciary only looking NLS (please again don't confuse & read full form of this) graduate ? Let me tell you one thing majority (don't read it as all LLM candidates choice like above you did) of the LLM candidate's first choice always, academic then corporate then govt. services.
If you need to clear any further doubt must respond with your funny question. I like to clear doubts of child. please respond.
Just one clarification: I was referring to Section 155 itself smartass. Please read the comment properly. I am saying that most of the times, the police officers club the non-cog offence with a cog offence so that this Section is not attracted. By doing so, they retain their jurisdiction to investigate the offence independently (without any order from a magistrate) under Section 154 read with Section 156.
The reason I told you why not choose because our courses are designed in such a way that we get chance to interact with every department and we get required information. So many law students found judiciary much better option than UPSC.
So, don't rumor fake if you don't know anything.
P.s.: Your post was shared by my friend to answer as I am from NLS.
Moral - Don't rely only on what show by news channel many thing media doesn't cover same like many crimes happen every second but all not get reported and thus we cannot assume that only reported cases are correct report. If such power provided then it must exercised anywhere mere no information can't say that not happen in practical. Discuss like mature person (hope you under what I mean)
Quote: Responding - So, this how your thinking ability. Even a normal man would not think this, the discussion going on some other direction & you are thinking other. Ok no problem, CrPC know what you silly question so a provision already inserted date back in 1973, section 155 (1) "When information is given to an officer in charge of a police station of the commission within the limits of such station of a non- cognizable offence, he shall enter or cause to be entered the substance of the information in a book to be kept by such officer in such form as the State Government may prescribe in this behalf, and refer the informant to the Magistrate".
Quote: Responding - What duty performed by Secretary of Sports Welfare is same performed by Home Secretary is performed by Defence Secretary? Does Home / Defence Secretary enter into the work area of Secretary of Sports or vice versa ?
Moral - Again told you discuss like mature person. How President & PM become your example I didn't get it. Although, President is always powerful even in practical life. The PM has only influence over him if he belong from his own party but if from rival party then very less chance. If you consider PM as powerful just on influence basis then in actual it is local politicans because of whom a PM & his party survive. Then they will powerful.
Discuss like sensible person.
Quote: Responding - Whatttttttt ? Ok read this three point only -
1. Narendra Modi government announced its ambitious plan to reform the civil services by bringing in fresh talent through the lateral entry process.
2. IAS officers do need specialisation. I think the government should ask all officers to specialise in one domain after 10 years of their service. Right now, most lack that skill -Said N.C.Saxena, a former bureaucrat, who also taught newly-recruited civil servants at the Lal Bahadur Shastri National Academy of Administration, Mussoorie, for eight years.
3. Amid calls to induct โexpertsโ into the civil service, DoPT data shows an overwhelming majority of IAS picks have no specialisation of any kind.
Moral - Again told you talk like mature person. The discussion is going on law students choice but you are including other filed students. I hope you are aware that law can apply UPSC or Judiciary both but a non-law person only eligible for UPSC. So in law field very less that any candidate will choose UPSC over judiciary in government service as they have detail information about the both service during their legal studies. Seriously I am telling in legal field no one care whether you are IAS/IPS/or any as in law an advocate itself presume themselves above IAS/IPS but for judiciary they have high value. So a law it is only corporate sector which over the judiciary.
Quote: Responding - You are only citing what you hear from someone. Majority people who wants to stay in judiciary they didn't choose DJS because here promotion scope very slow in regard to other state. In majority of states 2008 Batch Judicial officers are ADJ (in UP 2009 also) but in DJS it is still stuck between 2005-06. One my senior was in DJS & he resign and join UPJS because of this reason. Only people join DJS -
1. Who want stay in Delhi permanently.
2. Who want career scope in Corporate as partner or Other top offices or earn more
3. Who didn't want to get transfer in far areas.
4. Very few desire to join DJS for other reason
Quote: Responding - For AIJS please read various research paper & Law Commission report that whether it solve than discuss. Don't read government report.
Ending my response with quoting respected Divisional Commissioner Sir, suggestion must read -
The Divisional Commissioner under whose office I interned, at last day when I visited his office to receive certificate, he interacted with me ask my career. I just told him randomly that I want to be an IAS he said why IAS why not judiciary ? You are lucky that you took right study profession. Go for judiciary it has far brighter scope than Civil Services. Atleast there you will work happily and under the guidance educated one and pay, perks are far better. In deputation what rank we got the similar rank they also get but in field what power they get we didn't. My son has pursed engineering from NIT, but if he had done law than I'll suggest him for judiciary. He quoted number of his friend IAS child who are now judges.
Copying your point with few modification - Just to add a disclaimer, reiterating that both services and organs of the govt are essential. But since we are talking about a single career choice here taking in context only law student, objectively speaking, PCS-J will be a better choice depend than Civil Service
I know you will respond, but again saying "truth is truth, accept it" with argument nothing will change.
Most of your other replies are also based on theoretical or an improper understanding of what authority can mean. You are just comparing designation of posts - ABC is equivalent post to XYZ without understanding the area of influence the post carries. For example, even amongst secretary level posts, you obviously can't compare a Home / Defence / Finance Secretary with the Secretary of Sports Welfare. Being higher in the precedence list doesn't mean anything if it doesn't come with any real authority. It's like saying that the President in India is more powerful than the PM just because he is higher in the order of precedence. I can go on but I think you get the gist.
Quote: Lastly, I don't understand how sanctioned strength or vacancies indicate preferences of candidates. Vacancies are created because the government has been recruiting less people than required. It's not because posts are advertised and people are not interested in applying. It's a known fact that the Civil Services generally attracts brighter students than the judiciary (exceptions may always be there but they remain exceptions and not the norm).
Just to add a disclaimer, reiterating that both services and organs of the govt are essential. But since we are talking about a single career choice here, objectively speaking, the Civil Services will be a better choice than entering into the PCS-J. If someone wishes to be a judge, they would much rather take the DJS exam route (7 years post qualification exam for district judge level posting) or try to get a direct elevation to HC after practising for 10-15 years. And this will remain the case until and unless a All India Judicial Service Exam is created.
Someone just uses the word "vs" (they should feel shame) instead they should use "and", all aspirants start quarrelling like how it is India v Pakistan comment. I didn't understand whether legally India give time on this blog. We human really dumb before applying mind we start on.
UPSC & Judiciary both are main organ and over democracy subsist because both are doing good. So, please provide positive aspects. whole India know the cons of both service nothing is hidden even pros also but here to define your dream in your way i.e., why you want to go into that service, rather than criticizing other.
Quote: Respond - Look at the difference -
1. AAPโs Uttam Nagar MLA Naresh Balyan saying that bureaucrats deserve to be thrashed for not doing their work (when boss of IAS get slap)
2. Just only wishing JM without permission - MP lawyer, jailed for sending birthday message to judge.
Quote: Responding - Where judges on deputation ? your home
One brief of deputation post - Secretary General of SC India is equivalent post to Secretary to Govt. of India which is equal to Chief Secretary of State. Secretary General post is deputation post of District Judge. Also look at current Law Secretary of India.
I hope i don't need to elaborate for other judges deputation. you got it
Quote: Responding - Forget about HC Judges he is not comparable post with any IAS. It is equivalent post to Cabinet Minister of State. Come to subordinate judges,
A judge become principal law secretary (equivalent to P.S. in IAS, second last post of IAS) when he is DJ cadre nearly 22-25 year of service whereas an IAS take nearly more than 26 year to become Secretary (lower post than P.S). Secretary General of SC within 25year of service but similar post Chief Secretary you have to earn for 30 year.
Quote: Sanctioned strength - IAS = 6, 396
Vacany - as per the government, there is a shortage of 1449 IAS (nearly 22%)
Sanctioned Strength of Judges = 24, 247
vacany = as per law ministry 4,929 (nearly 21%)
I am not criticizing UPSC and not indented to let moral of upsc down but true is true, have to accept.
Hope no further argument required. Thanks
Quote: Here is the class see where boss of IAS slap in front of CM & their party leader statement - AAPโs Uttam Nagar MLA Naresh Balyan was also reported as saying that such bureaucrats deserve to be thrashed for not doing their work.
Quote: What kind of power they have which is non-comparable? Explain
Just read this your so called IAS power - In compliance of Gaya sub judge Sandeep Singhโs order, the official residence of Gaya district magistrate would be put on auction. The proclamation regarding the auction was paste at the residence on Thursday evening.
To get relief from this he approach to HC & later government was forced to pay the debt.
1. The CJM/JMFC can summon the DM/SP in his court but not vice-versa,
2. The executive can only implement Parliamentary law but it is courts which have the power to strike them down.
I would simply say that these arguments are very bookish in nature and do not reflect the ground realities whatsoever for the following reasons:
1. Area of influence / Discretion - The judicial members have no authority outside the courtroom and they usually struggle to get things done through contacts even for themselves (let alone others). The scope of discretion for a judicial member is extremely limited and they can step in only once a matter actually reaches a court. Unless someone wants to live in their own bubble, a common citizen is not really concerned about the DJ/CJM/JMFC of a district and they would rather be much more mindful of a IAS/IPS/IRS officer.
A DM/SP (even an Additional DM/ Deputy SP) is the nodal officer of the Central/State Government for that district and has enormous discretion in administering the district. Basically, they have the entire state machinery to themselves (for use/misuse) for practically doing anything since they control each and every sphere of policy implementation.
Again, this is simply a function of the organ you are working for - the executive or the judiciary. This is in no way meant to belittle the judiciary - the judiciary has its own function to perform and it's a very important organ of the government but one should be clear about what they are getting into.
2. Status - Political interference is a sad reality for Civil Services posts. However, this is not to say that the judicial officers don't face any pressure.
a) Often, you will see that many lawyers in district courts don't respect the authority of judicial officers (I have heard of instances where lawyers have simply hurled abuses at a JMFC / CJM and challenged their authority in open court).
b) Many well off parties don't respect the authority of even district judges (especially in civil cases) and advocates openly tell them they can pass whatever order they want and they will appeal against the order in higher courts.
Now, if we are comparing the worst outcome, there is either the option of listening to abuses from a MP / state / central minister or some random advocate of a district court. I guess I will go with the former option.
3. Postings - I think someone has already covered this point above very precisely. In the judiciary, unless you reach the position of a HC judge, you will always get remote postings. However, with civil services, that's not true. If you are an IAS/IPS, you can get urban postings after first 7-8 years (if you are IRS - then even sooner). While this is obviously a matter of personal preference, it cannot be denied that urban areas have more facilities and infrastructure than rural areas (health, education, leisure and entertainment etc.).
4. Work profile - As someone mentioned above, the work profile of a civil servant is much more varied and dynamic than a judge. Again, this is because of the inherent nature of the executive organ. It is supposed to undertake all the residual functions in administering a country. You have the opportunity to go on deputation to other departments or international organisations like UN, World Bank etc. On the other hand, the scope of a PCS-J member is limited to courtroom procedure and adjudication.
5. It's about the journey - People are claiming here that people passing the PCS J examination will become a HC judge by the age of 50-55 (which is completely debatable with hardly any evidence). Assuming it is true, the 25 years taken to reach that level by wading through the lower judiciary isn't worth it (see first four points on why that is so). Civil servants, on the other hand have a time based promotion (which may be a flawed policy but it is what it is) and each post performs a different function if you consider it in terms of a supply chain. The role of a DM is vastly different from a joint secretary and you will learn different things such as policy implementation, formulation at different stages of life. The journey to a Secretary is very fulfilling in each role and it's not like people are simply biding their time to get something better like it may be for PCS-J members.
Conclusion - There is a reason why the judiciary has not been able to the attract the brightest people getting into law. Unless an All India Judicial Services is created and modelled along the lines of IAS/IPS, the lower judiciary will unfortunately be something that people settle for if they are not able to clear the Civil Services Examination.
1. I had done 2 internship one under Divisional Commissioner and another under CJM.
No one in the legal industry was interested in my internship under divisional commissioner but at same time when they know i have also done internship under CJM they took interest.
2. I have seen child of subordinate judge and IAS as I belong to DU, if you are child of judge everyone take interest in you but same not with IAS as very less will take interest.
3. During my graduation I had dream to be an IAS but one of the retired IAS who was alumni from our department has suggested me for the judicial service with number of pros and my personal research has made me join DU LLB.
4. Seriously I am telling you from my experience in legal field and non-field judges always get edge over IAS in term of value.
They have empathy. They know India
1,07,000 and 73,200 (with accommodation in Mumbai)
Benefits and Perks
1. In which district has more than one district judge at head ? (do not include ADJ or Family Judge)
2. what is the meaning of Additional collectors ?
3. what is the meaning & purpose of additional post?
4. If problem in accommodation of judges than why India suffering from lack of judges ?
Quote: The author has very correctly responded to your question. That is called answering.
I am only a fan of author of the original thread. decide yourself who is original.
Besides, the sheer number of judges is a huge problem to accommodate judges. District judges alone number over 10 in any big district, whereas do you do not see 10 district collectors. Hence, the respect.
Quote: Lol
Quote: Who are you atleast take some other name? and why are responding on my comments? Atleast take some other fake name. Fake name bhi copy karna hai.
Quote: 1. Please tell me who has overruled that judgements. you or government or that judiciary ?
2. Upholding of many FRs, curtailing many action of government, also in Covid time taking such action and many more. who has done that. you or government or that judiciary?
Quote: 1. "Please continue your preparation, you still have a long way to go" for this reason I am commenting to make you under stand that you need this. hahahaha.
2. Yes my energy is getting waste in laughing when I read your comments who just by citing overruled cases and many more. please continue I have full time to respond. hahahaha
For what it's worth, let me just tell you that your understanding of sub-judice is wrong. And if one has to approach the SC to make sure they get the "right" judgement, then you admit that 'lower' judiciary is not doing it's job of "protecting the rights", as you had claimed.
Also, as far as your concern regarding the other person mentioning overruled judgements - they are overruled NOW, but they were good law a short while ago, and were clear instances of judiciary NOT protecting people's rights. That's how your point gets defeated.
Please continue your preparation, you still have a long way to go.
1. till the last appeal subsist, the decision of court not called as final & binding. It is called as sub judice.
2. decision become final only either no appeal proceed or appeal disposed off
3. appeal is a right as in every case one party hurt with the decision
4. if she waive up her right this mean she has accepted with her consent that decision is right.
Quote: Because, it responded correctly to your arguments. haahahaha
DMs in Delhi have Ciaz. Secretaries to Govt. of India also have Ciaz. Same ho gaye?
If I shell out a few million rupees and buy myself a Kia carnival, I'm "placed on par" then?
Why this arbitrary measure of comparison?
Most of you don't know anything about real India, outside big cities and big offices..
Most of you won't be able to deal with poorest of Indians. This comment will get lot of down votes.
But you guys are the type of people who will become a Magistrate and deny bail because the advocate representing the poor man has bad English or doesn't have the City Slang you have.
Knowledge of English and Grammar and having a British Accent is not a sign of Knowledge.
AAPโs Uttam Nagar MLA Naresh Balyan was also reported as saying that such bureaucrats deserve to be thrashed for not doing their work.
Haters will 100% object this comment rather than responding.
Please give time to read this (hahahaha).....
Mayawati as chief minister of Uttar Pradesh was the unchallenged transfer queen. She also takes pride in that power. In a โWalk The Talkโ interview with me in 2005, she boasted about this. When she first met her mentor Kanshi Ram (who lay in coma on the first floor of her Humayun Road home where we were recording), she was preparing to compete for the IAS. Kanshi Ram told her not to bother and join politics with him instead. โYou want to become an IAS,โ he said, โI will make you somebody IAS officers will run around.โ Kanshi Ram lived up to his promise. So did Behenji in giving her officers the runaround. At one of her 2007 election meetings in Badaun, we heard her boast to her cheering crowd: โBureaucracy mere naam se thhar-thhar kaampti hai,โ (the bureaucracy trembles at the very mention of my name).
P.S.: I have no disrespect with IAS officer as I am also a upsc aspirant but I can't take fake appraisal. so i added.
On a sidenote, I wonder how this comment passed through moderation given the clear ad hominems
Quote: Respond - The reason for this order "the forest land is completely cleared of encroachment. This being forest land, there can be no concession or compromise".
Quote: Respond - The reason for this order "It is not mere case of falling in love but two students taking the drastic step of eloping and living together without even contracting a marriageโฆ managementโs concern to ensure discipline in educational institution cannot be brushed asideโ. However she still have right to approach apex court.
Quote: Respond - How it show that it is against the right of people. Kindly elaborate.
Sorry I don't have much time to respond all links as from the above links you proved that you are connected to legal field but you are a dumb legal professional. Even don't know how to respond. hahahaha
Quote: Respond - Till above I was thinking that you are dumb but at this question I have sympathy for your parents, who spend their earning for such dumb who cites over ruled cases and asking how does it not affect. Why their is no laughing emojis here. God I can't stop my laughing.
Ok let's comes to the point. look how to respond. A simple brief will explain how judiciary is protecting our rights. I will just cite one which will be enough I hope.
1. A Class 5 student from Kerala has written to Chief Justice of India Justice NV Ramana, thanking the Supreme Court for its intervention and addressing issues related to the raging coronavirus pandemic in the country. she says she was "happy and proud" of the Supreme Courtโs orders regarding oxygen supply in the country, especially in Delhi.
My simple suggestion
Please at least read before cite. Thank to god here for answering no identities require otherwise. Hahahaahaha
'fight for rights of people'
"SC orders removal of slums from Aravalli forest land in Haryanaโs Faridabad"
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/sc-orders-removal-of-slums-from-aravalli-forest-land-in-haryana-s-faridabad-101623068974330.html#:~:text=SC%20orders%20removal%20of%20slums%20from%20Aravalli%20forest%20land%20in%20Haryana's%20Faridabad,-The%20top%20court&text=The%20Supreme%20Court%20on%20Monday,or%20concession%20on%20forest%20land.
"Kerala: College couple in live-in relationship get โindefinitely suspendedโ, High Court says suspension โcorrectโ"
https://www.india.com/news/india/kerala-college-couple-in-live-in-relationship-get-indefinitely-suspended-high-court-says-suspension-correct-1341903/
""Entire Social Fabric Of Society Would Get Disturbed": P&H High Court Refuses To Grant Protection To A Live-In Couple"
https://www.livelaw.in/news-updates/entire-social-fabric-of-society-would-get-disturbed-ph-high-court-refuses-to-grant-protection-to-a-live-in-couple-174131
"99% habeas corpus pleas filed in J&K since Article 370 move are pending, HC Bar tells CJI"
https://theprint.in/judiciary/99-habeas-corpus-pleas-filed-in-jk-since-article-370-move-are-pending-hc-bar-tells-cji/450281/
"58 Habeas Corpus petitions pending before Supreme Court, oldest is from 2005: RTI response"
https://www.barandbench.com/news/litigation/58-habeas-corpus-petitions-pending-before-supreme-court-oldest-2005-rti
"Find ways to block porn sites, Supreme Court tells government"
https://www.indiatoday.in/mail-today/story/now-sc-wants-govt-to-block-porn-310800-2016-02-27
"SC Judgment on Kashmir's Internet Shutdown Ignores Both Rights and Remedies"
https://thewire.in/law/sc-internet-shutdown-judgement
"'RTI Has Come To Be A Weapon For Intimidation, There Should Be Some Filters": Observes SC"
https://www.livelaw.in/top-stories/rti-has-come-to-be-a-weapon-for-intimidation-there-should-be-some-filters-observes-sc-150851
"How An Indian Stand Up Comic Found Himself Arrested for a Joke He Didn't Tell"
https://time.com/5938047/munawar-iqbal-faruqui-comedian-india/
(Yes, he got bail, but from the Supreme Court - not the Magistrate, the Sessions or the High Court. So much for fighting for rights of people)
Do I mention ADM Jabalpur here or are we cool about it now? How about Suresh Koushal? Months-long adjournment for Delhi riots cases when the riots were happening? Or the "stop the violence and then we will see" attitude?
1. One service (judiciary) always fight for right of people and stand for them whereas another service always stands with their action of their uneducated boss rather than actual duty. Just remember one think it is the judiciary because of whom we are exercising our freedom otherwise just read only repealed amendments in FRs you will understand which is good.
2. What do with such service when you work hard but from beginning to till in service have to work under the umbrella of uneducated. I have seen how a uneducated politicians (even he was not minister) scolded in very dirty way to ACS rank officer and he just listening with his head down. Their are number of videos on youtube of such type. Although they Civil Servant i.e., "Naukar shah". Their are number of retired or resigned IAS officers videos on youtube (go and check) how they are criticizing the naukar shahi prampara. latest example Mumbai & Bengal tussle.
3. On the other side Judiciary, highly respectable, similar hard study required as like UPSC but difference is work culture here to work without any external fear and independently. Example how an ADJ rank officer pull down the then existing CM Jaylalita of his own state from the post and charged her with legal consequences even because of that lower judiciary an existing CM of MP was forced to leave her post and after that she was never become CM. This is why a judge never called as "Naukar Shah" but a true public servant.
4. Although civil servants may have better facilities but เคเคฌ เคเคคเคจเคพ เคชเฅ เคฒเคฟเค เคเคฐ เค เคจเคชเฅเฅ เคเฅ เคคเคฒเคตเฅ เคเคพเคเฅ เคเค เคคเฅ เคฎเฅเค เค เคเฅเคเฅ เคนเฅ เคฎเคฟเคฒเฅ gi.
5. These points are enough to differentiate which service is best.
Conclusion
The moral is that choose service where you get respect from your own soul first.
Comments are welcome
Both of them have horrible Transfers within a state. So how will your spouce live with you?
The Transfers are mostly to [...] poor villages with 19th century infrastructure where there will be no good jobs for her/him (IT/Finance/HR/Law)
Transfers means most Judicial Services Officers marry [...]
(No offence against any woman who doesn't go to work or is educated less. I was trying to make a different point altogether)
IAS Officers atleast have a transfer policy where if he get a Civil Service Spouce they will be transferred together. There is nothing like that for PCSJ. If a guy gets a Civil Services Colleague atleast he can go to home and have a nice time - spend time with a smart human being.
You may think a [...] not so educated girl is good. But it becomes dull and boring in a few years. You may get to take big decisions and have a say in any decision in your house. But you are never going to get any good insight or someone who can solve your problems.
Already you are surrounded by yes men and sycophants with whom you can't have a conversation. A wife also like your peon makes life miserable. Atleast most guys in National Law Universities/ and from Big Cities prefer intelligent and educated girls with well paying jobs [...].
You won't/have a hard time getting an educated and intelligent spouce. It's unfair to expect a highly educated partner to sit at home and raise kids. Especially when your job itself is super relaxed and stress free.
How will you manage your married/love life? Especially if you are from a big city and good law school. You won't get your expectations.
First of all the fear you are talking about is called departmental action and its common fear. But here discussion is fearing of judiciary. One of my relative was in police service and recently retired from post DSP (Home guard) let me till you court fear which he share me far back when he was a senior police inspector.
He said "department action se bachna asan hai comparatively court action se Q ki department mai pehchaan hai or pairvi kaam aa jati hai par court mai nhi" when he was contempt by court but the judge was kind accept his plea.
2. Convoy is not a matter of right it is a matter of security. so it may be vary person to person. go and check Gujarat, Maharashtra and few other states where CS/ACS whom you are talking only get 2-3 number of vehicle in their convoy. But don't say HC Judges also get same, their convoy more than CS/ACS in that states specially I personally seen both.
3. convoy for CS/ACS only in official duty not available during off-duty but HC Judges also entitle on off-duty purpose.
4. Helicopter run on fuel not mere on your writing and it cost in lakhs for hour so states are not dumb to let you use helicopter for off-duty.
5. On duty everyone entitle A+ Class facility so if compare then do with off-duty perks.
I mean, people know that the police has limited powers, what can a police officer even do? A rich person can easily get a bail order in a day.
The court may grant an anticipatory bail, and then the investigation is virtually over.
If you take the example of the INX media case, no police SP or DCP had the courage to arrest PC Chidambaram, until a Supreme court justice personally ordered the arrest.
No factory owner would be afraid of a DM order, he would get it quashed by a writ petition in a day or two, I've heard many such cases.
Yeah whatever be the case, but an acquittal order or a bail order once given, the police merely has to leave the person.
A good lawyer knows the law
A great lawyer knows the judge
period
I am aware of the legal differences between their powers. I was responding specifically to "who the police is more afraid of" comment. Powers to suspend people still lies with the SP/IG, you know. Speak to some cops about who they'd fear more, you'll know what I'm saying.
Also, for what it's worth, if you think an SP cannot take cognisance of an offence, I'd urge you to read 154(3) CrPC; as for confessions, under specific Acts, they're covered. NDPS and all. But all that is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Comparing the specific legal powers is comparing apples to oranges.
And yes, executive "merely has to implement the law", but again, the question was who would the police-wallah be more afraid of. Let me put it differently: you think a factory-owner would be more obliging to the local SHO or to a DJ(Comm.)? There lies your answer.
About 50% of my litigation involves criminal law, and it involves regular interactions with the cops and senior bureaucrats. :)
I do not wish to come across to mean that judges are inferior, so don't let that get into your way of exam prep.
Once a DM passes an order or policy, it can be struck down as unconstitutional or overreach of power by the district judge( study the law then argue )
But if a district court judge passes a ruling or order, the DM cannot overturn it, but is obliged to follow it.
When the parliament/state legislature passes an act, the DM has to enforce it and cannot refuse to do so.
It can only be challenged in a court of law, which may quash the law as unconstitutional or can quash certain parts.
The DM has to follow accordingly.
You see a nation runs on Legislature vs Judiciary( checks and balances)
The executive merely has to implement the law.
Go and ask a police officer and he will tell you, that a contempt notice is worst that death.
A senior officer cannot transfer a police officer out of town(state govt), they are bound by the court once the fir is filed.
A DM or SP cannot take cognizance of an offence, nor can confessions to them be enforced in court, they cannot admit evidence, cannot order trial, cannot control trial, cannot convict.
They cannot order further investigation, or addition of new evidence
When the legislature formulates a law, they merely have to implement them by policies and rules, they cannot question the law and strike it down as unconstitutional.
2. The guy above you was talking about perks. On paper, a HC judge is slightly above, yes. Can summon the Secretary too, yes. But let's see the perks. The CS and Addl. CS posted in 'right' departments have convoys bigger than HC judges (many judges have none, rather). Access to helicopters for inter-district/state travel. The entire state machinery for you to (mis)use.
3. There is no point in discussing who has more "power" - that thing basically boils down to the network and clout the individual carries. People get (and are getting) bullied on both sides. There are so many real life examples, that unfortunately can't really be discussed openly on LI. :) Let me vaguely reference one regardless: One of the Chief Secy. of Delhi had access to a senior SC judge (being posted in the Capital has its perks!). Best to leave it here for you to figure out the implications of that.
But anyway, here it goes.
The answer, as is typical with us lawyers, is that it depends. A, on what you want. B, where you're located. And C, where you're coming from.
For the purposes of this answer, I'm speaking in context of lower judicial services and the IAS/IPS. No point speaking of IRS/IDAS/Whatever - there are too many varying factors. Foremost being that they are not limited by any cadre; judicial services are limited to your state.
Also, my answer is mostly Delhi-specific.
What do you want?
The work culture, the lifestyle, everything is very different. An entry level IAS/IPS officer posted in district (as opposed to HQ/Secretariat) - SDM/DM/ACP/DCP - gets a car with a beacon, a PSO, cars with huge boards saying 'District Magistrate' or a flag on the bonnet. Typical things that an IAS aspirant thinks of. You know what I mean.
Not so with judges. In Delhi, entry-level judicial officers don't have any official vehicles to take them from home to court. Go to Tis Hazari judges parking, you'll see i10s and Swifts with a judge sticker on them. Now I'm not saying it's a bad thing, or that everyone should aim for that laal batti. But know what you want, what you're getting into. I've seen judicial officers get visible agitated and frustrated simply because an IAS officer (who they believe to be inferior in rank) gets more perks.
Judges in Delhi also don't get PSOs, drivers. On some days, not enough stenographers even. It's tough to manage work that way. In other states, however, I've heard judges through all the ranks get a driver-cum-PSO at least.
On the other hand, judges have far more relaxed work timings. Court starts at 10 in Delhi (in other states, don't bother coming before 11/11:30), you wind up by 3-ish, do chamber work/prepare for next day, go home. Not so for an IAS/IPS posted in district. You're basically on duty 24x7. Reaching home at 9PM, and immediately rushing back to work at 9:30 because of an emergency is not uncommon, especially in IPS.
The actual work that you have to do is very different too. A district posting is basically crisis management all of the time. You're always running, having meetings, trying to solve some thing or the other (except in the occasional times when things are relaxed between crises). In a non-district posting as well, it's a desk-job but still it is common to have frequent travel (for meetings), and last-minute work (say, because your predecessor forgot to prepare a status report for the case listed in HC tomorrow, and now you're calling different HODs at 7PM trying to get the relevant documents from them). On the other hand, as a judge, you sit and adjudicate cases all day. It can get boring and dull. Evidence being recorded for hours and hours straight. Sub-par arguments that you HAVE to listen because the guy arguing is the Bar President. Same thing day-in-day-out.
So it really depends on your aptitude.
Big establishments (luxury hotels, businesses, hospitals) also oblige you if you're an IAS/IPS. Judges, not so much (and really, think about it, there are over 150 DJS officers posted in just Tis Hazari alone; there are five other court complexes in Delhi, whereas there are less than 20 DCPs.) However, when an IAS/IPS is summoned to court, he'll have to listen to whatever absurd rant the judge goes on with a bowed head and (figuratively) folded hands. It's not uncommon for a 20-something M.M. to be scolding a 40+ ACP/DCP, often unnecessarily. As an IPS officer, you have to live with it.
So again, know what you're getting into, what your motivations are. Not knowing this will just lead to frustration, and you'll never really be happy with whatever you get into.
Where are you located?
Court infrastructure is minimal outside Delhi. I've been to subordinate courts outside Delhi, and courts of even ASJs and Special Judges (CBI) don't have working computers. A stenographer writes by hand the evidence that gets recorded. On the other hand, Delhi district courts are quite advanced infrastructurally.
On the other hand, judges have more respect/power in states outside Delhi. There will be huge sign boards simply saying "District Judge Residence" - if that's any signifier of where things stand by comparison. In Delhi no one cares/knows where you live. And it makes sense also, if you think of it. In Delhi, there are 11 District Judges, and the HC and SC are also here. In a state, there's no one above the DJ in that particular district. So unless the administrative judge is visiting, you're the king. At the same time, there is greater attempts at political interference as well in states.
Promotions also differ. Some lower judicial services officers in Delhi will never reach become the DJ, let alone a HC judge. Forget about it. On the other hand, in some states (do your research), the promotions are faster and it's much more streamlined.
Where are you coming from?
I know of people whose parents are IAS/IPS (direct as well as promotee) who did not appear for subordinate judiciary exams because they believed it to be "beneath" them. Now, I don't mean to demean the noble job, but it's a genuine perception. They wish to move "up in the ladder" and joining lower judicial services meant a stagnation for them, socially. Their friends, similarly placed socially because of the background, would be "higher up in the society." For e.g., the friend whose father is a HC judge would be elevated from the Bar and become his boss. If you feel this kind of thinking could creep into your mind, make sure you factor this in while making any decision.
------
Lastly, as far as your comment that judges remain in touch with law while civil servants don't, that's only partly true. While the exposure to law won't be as much as a judge, a civil servant does remain in touch. When posted in district, IPC, CrPC, CPC and a number of other (major) Acts are regularly used. And if you're an IPS, all the criminal statutes, obviously. When posted in HQ/Secretariat, you're in touch with a number of other things - service law, for e.g., will always be there. If you're in a municipal corporation, the municipal laws; if deputed to some special department, the relevant laws there.
Hope this helps.
Purely evaluating the two career choices on the basis of the lives that you will live:
1. Judicial services (excluding Delhi Judiciary): You'll spend the majority of your life in a remote district, in a dilapidated courtroom with slow creaking fan, with two sycophant clerks and a bunch of lawyers who care more about making 20k a month than the law itself. Yes, there will be the occasional pride when you travel 300 kms once in six months to attend a family but the rest of the time, whose validation are you really looking for? Your driver, peon and clerk? Even if their validation gets you off for a few years, post that it is the monotony of life that shall prevail. With no friends (the close ones is far off cities, the new ones who are too awkward around you to be friends), no fun, no life outside the 2 acre government quarter. And if you're not married, no sex. (Try having an active sex life without a marriage as a judge and your career finish before you do.) At the end, you'll become a HC judge when you're 50 years old. But alas, 10 years of writing boring sectional judgements and templated orders for dull lawyers, you've lost your flair and passion for law to contribute anything meaningful in your 50s. Yes, you earned a lakh more than your peers in the civil services. But at what cost?
2. UPSC (equating only to IAS and may be, IPS): The first 7-10 years of your life would pretty much be the same (except for the occasional law and order situations when you 'feel' your impact and the regular district tours that make you realise 'India lives in its villages'). Post that the difference kicks in. You come to the state capital, head an entire department as the Secretary when you're in your late 30s/early 40s. Since you live in the capital city, your weekends will be better and your kids will go to better schools. Your FOMO about your other friends glamorous lives wouldn't be as much. Your career will remain interesting for the next 10 years as you frame policies, execute them over different departments (like a new job every 2 years). 45-50 years, and you'll be on your way to the national capital. This is the peak of the curve that you finally get to enjoy. Being in the heart of policy making of the country, calling the shots. While a HC judge may technically be higher than you in protocol, you know you are the man in the power corridor who can get sh*t done! Even if you retire at this point, you'd find a private sector job with more than a crore a year package or may be, end up working for the UN or the World Bank - thanks to your 30-40 years of diverse administrative experience in running the country and not just writing judgements your entire life.
So, yes. The two career paths are comparable to a certain point - for the first 10 years perhaps. Towards the end, one may end up on a higher protocol position (HC or SC judge) than the other. But you can't read the introduction and conclusion alone and say you've finished the book. Read every page of it. Make each page count. Just like you would do with each day of life.
not following the court orders have serious implications....contempt notices for constitutional courts like the HC or SC
And for those who dont know, there is only 1 cab sec, only a very few prestigious constitutional posts reserved(nominated by) for those close to the political leadership.
Now just like the elevation system, there is a lateral entry system from the private sector which is more preferred due to extra skills and talents.
DO you know what you are saying?
Check the perks and powers and tell me!
Can you even dream to compare a HC judge with a joint secretary?
You should know the law, which says that a HC judge is even higher than an MP and the chief justice is higher than the Cabinet ministers of a state in the order of precedence.
Plus, these are constitutional bodies.
And you have to wait till 50 to be a joint secretary also, let me make it clear
If and when a well thought out AIJS is set up, things may change. But as they stand, even top NLU grads prefer corp firms/litigation rather than being in the subordinate judiciary. A faster way to the HC bench would be to be elevated in your 40s after you've set up a good practice at a top HC.
I dont think mere statistics cannot be a criterion to evaluate the difficulty level
A young talented brain will still choose civil services because it gives you vast opportunities right from the year you enter. While, you have to wait till the age of at least 50 to become a HC judge.
The effect of 2002 judgment is yet to become visible. However, I am sure that if a law student enters judiciary in young age (less than 25), in most probability he will retire as a high court judge. I think that makes judiciary an equally lucrative option as UPSC.
Dont just think that UPSC is equivalent to IAS or IPS
Nobody cares of you have an LLM but people respect you hell of a lot if you are a judge.
These are some really misplaced priorities. If you want to crack the UPSC exam, do it for your own sake, not to assauge your lack of self worth.
Many of the law students remain confused if Judiciary or UPSC is a better option to puruse. While UPSC comes with a lot of fame, judiciary offer better pay and lets you remain in touch with law. Also, promotions have been made very streamlined in judiciary and increasingly judicial officers are elevated to High courts as well. UPSC has its own perks.
We hear a lot of times that Judiciary isnt a bright career option. However, I dont think there is anything not good about it.
Could you all please share your thoughts how good is judiciary as a career option for a good law student?
Thanks