You will be too old when you will become a SC judge and UPSC promotes you with a lot of incentives. Plus UPSC is muchhhh more difficult than judiciary lol. That’s why it attracts a lot sapiosexuals even from tier-1 cities and colleges like IITs, IIMs and NLS/NLU-D.
Judiciary has a lot of/in-fact majority of candidates from tier-2 towns who couldn’t secure good placements and thus the exam’s standard isn’t that good anyway.
Two points. Number one we get it that you are from NLU-D (by your omission of NALSAR and NUJS), but traditional law colleges will give all tier 1 college a run for their money when it comes to judiciary. It is another thing that most Tier 1 alums don't write judicial exams coz they can earn way more in their corporate careers. Secondly, becoming SC judge should not be compared to becoming a Secretary. The pinnacle of most lower judiciary people is District Judge and few of course get to be a HC judge. HC/SC are a different ball game and golf and football should not be compared. Now don't start the competition of who is bigger, a Secretary or a DJ. Both are great careers and draw almost equal pay scale.
Of course, no wonder, one of the more sane comments is getting downvoted in a rather stupid cringe fest of a thread. Dick measuring everywhere. Who is greater x or y. Tired of these questions. Legally India audience is by far very juvenile and immature.
Ahh the age old way of slipping NLU D along with NLS. And the shamelessness and audacity to skip NALSAR. I mean if you have to include NLU D in this list, the only way you can do it without being trolled is to include other Tier 1s also.
Bro everyone cracking UPSC becomes a Secretary or Commissioner in some department in their 40s. A person cracking the lower JS doesnt even become a HC judge.
You will become a DJ in your 40s. HC is not even in question as very few become. Take it like icing on cake. If you get it good, if not, the cake was still delicious. So the correct comparison is DJ versus Secretary/Commissioner. To each their own.
According to official information an IAS only become commissioner if have min.16 yr exp. so if one join service at the age of 25 or more how he can be a commissioner at 40s?
& 1/3rd seats are reserved for lower judiciary in HCs judgeships (constitutional post) of every states. In miniority yet good number of judges from civil judge grade made to HC every year.
No UPSC is just as depressing. But your status in society goes to CEO of Fortune 500 level in India, you will literally oversee all the major transactions of running the department. (AKA paisa)
Yes, it's a contempt of court to even allege such offences, so unless the HC suo Moto sees evidence, there's no suspension, which is also very very common on graft. Most of my dad's side are DJ/ HCJ. With their pay, they can never buy the number of houses and luxury vacations and Cars I know they have somewhere in UP. Ofc they live modestly in their official area, because obviously you have more scrutiny from the executive as they fking hate you.
Are you a law student? Take it from a practitioner, 80% judicial magistrates and really corrupt. I know atleast 2 people who got in the exam because their father is a HC judge and never pass orders unless their "agents" are paid a lump sum, they just delay it for years. On the contrary I know another lady on the exact next courtroom who keeps passing interim orders. This court is in Hyderabad, and practitioners can attest that they "choose" one of these courts depending on the client. All the best in your career, but just to inform you, EVERYONE is corrupt in the government, in EVERY department in EVERY state at EVERY level, from the peon, Registrar to the Minister and Judge. Only most take it to an extent, some go beyond and get raided. Just type ACB everyday in the morning, you will be shocked to see how even very low grade and powerless sectors of the govt mint money by the minute.
To answer your question, A HC judge is easily making much more than your average Secretary, because the former's signature is more binding, final and powerful and the former is protected from prosecution, raid, removal to a very large and dangerous extent.
Will give you an example from the US Supreme Court, where corruption is prosecuted readily-
@moderators, I am a practitioner at Hyderabad and hope my identity and IP is anonymous and protected. Someone has to do something about the JMs here (god knows what happens at Haryana and UP).
There is no exam like UPSC to become a SC judge. Having said that it is true that civil servants shit crazily when produced before higher judiciary. But forget SC judge, there is no exam that guarantees you will become an HC judge also. Very few people from lower judicial services make it to HC. Having said that even if you are a district judge it is a very respected position in my opinion. Only stupid men make comparisons like Secretary versus District judge and the like. And people saying UPSC attracts talent from across streams. Are you dumb? of course it does, it is a graduation neutral exam. It is like saying AIIMS PG is not sought after as only doctors go for it. Of course only lawyers go for judicial exams.
Bro DJ and DM are not at same footing. There is no real parity between judicial and civil services. You become X in Y years type comparisons are totally futile. For IAS officers DM is actually a very small post, in fact "junior" post, as you rightly pointed out every IAS can become one within 5 to 6 years. A DJ on the other hand is a "senior" post of judicial service officers. There is no comparison. A JCO of Army can have hundreds of men under him. A lower judiciary judge will have just a few staff. All I am saying is stop comparing apples and oranges. These services operate in totally different planes, with totally different powers, exposure, jurisdictions and transfers etc. To each their own is probably the best answer.
Okay my papa is a PDJ (Senior Most District Judge) in a State Judicial Services. I will tell my papas opinion on this. I showed him Legally India question.
Politics, Judiciary and Executive are the most important power centers.
Politics is dirty, it's a game of luck nepotism etc. Not your academic merit.
Judiciary is powerful. But in India Judiciary is just Supreme Court and High Courts. Subordinate Judiciary is just a clerical court. You have to lick foot for your supervising HC.
Every order you pass in subordinate court has zero value. High Court can reprimand, punish you and change your judgement even without a reason.
Subordinate courts in other countries have real independence. But in India subordinate court judges are mere employees of the supervision high court.
E. G. My papa said he passed a 10 year RI against a cruel rapist. Rapist father had HC judges blessings. HC judge called his colleague judge who was handling the matter. 10 year RI was changed into aquittal. My papa was rebuked.
So subordinate Judiciary doesn't have much power. Judicial Services exam if you clear you become Magistrate (most people) some people become District Judge (age 40 dist judge exam if you clear) or age 50 (if you are going via promotion from magistrate.
Real power vest with high court and Supreme court.
But supreme court and high court are very corrupt and nepotistic. If you are not from a Judicial Family (ex Judges, Bar Council people, Attorney General etc) it is practically impossible to be judge.
Also members of subordinate Judiciary who become hc judges at near retirement 59 years are looked down by hc judge Peers from bar (nepotistic family members).
Judges from bar (family members) are given the most important cases in a high court. Ex judicial Officers who become HC Judges are assigned less important cases.
Chief Justice of HC always prefer bar memebers (nepotistic family) to hear important cases or head important benches.
Supreme court - subordinate judges at present doesn't is just 2%. No power.
UPSC is a competitive exam where real merit prevails. At the age of 26 you have disposal of hundreds of staff. UPSC appointment doesn't have nepotism, corruption and politics. If you could crack UPSC CSE you become an officer. With real powers.
At the age of 26 as a Magistrate you will deal with petty cases. You will max see constable and thief.
Also ias has real powers.
IAS can't be easily dismissed. Subordinate Judiciary - can be easily fired for some mistakes if you are not in good terms with hc.
Subordinate Judiciary is just a clerical court of hc.
Ias is attractive because of real powers at young age. Which sub judge gets at 60 max.
Mjhe lga hi tha avi tak Judge ka beta q nhi aaya apna 2take wla GYAN dene ab thode der mai Cabinet Secretary ka beta aaye ga issi ko counter krne.
On every LI post rltd to Judiciary v. IAS these fake guys spammed there with fake stories & continued here as they think that except them none on LI knows up & down of both services. 🤣🤣
you obviously didn't inherit writing skills from your father.
Also, IAS officers are routinely suspended and dismissed, it's not hard. Sub judges/ magistrates are rarely dismissed, they are "suspended on graft charges" which is an abomination on any healthy democracy. Anybody accused of a crime like corruption with evidence prima facie, must be prosecuted and not sent home with free pay.
It’s because of the nepotism. Not everyone is justice Hidayatullah who was really young when he joined Supreme Court. Plus the collegium prefers senior advocates/jurists more compared to normal judges who actually have ‘merit’.
That’s why AIJS is a necessity. Not a luxury. But ofc a lot of judges will disagree with this for obvious reasons 🤌
Does one get insulted or beaten or treated badly if cracked judiciary? What kind of respect you're looking for on cracking PCS (J)? you consider media glorification as respect?
UPSC CSE is an open field job means any valid graduates can appear but for Civil Judge only law graduates can.
Salary of fresher civil judges are nearly 22K more than fresher IAS/IPS.
Also lakhs of candidates appears for UPSC CSE is not only for IAS/IPS but also for other 20 listed job comes under CSE on pan India level. Whereas approx. 20K-60K candidates appears just only for Civil Judge exams in one states. So competition is also very high.
Regarding promotion (even high vacancies due to shortage of IAS) one can get promoted to Joint Secretary grade on completing min.16 year of service (in reality it takes 18yr) & very few made to Secretary level where as for civil judges they get into ADJ grade within 12-17yr of service (on paper min.10yr service required)
They are definitely much more powerful. Why do you think the govt is so much interested in SC appointments and sits on applications for so long. Cuz, the Supreme Court is a constitutional court that decides a lot of powers and extremes of the Centre, and its relation with the states. And they have a lot of power to enforce them as well, and influence to really get things done. Especially with the Electoral bonds and Centre v. Delhi with the benches, there is definitely a lot of power.
I would say on the contrary that a DM or DGP is more powerful that the Cabinet Sec, cuz the latter is bound my upper elected executive and acts as a mouth piece, while the former dictates the administration and criminal justice execution respectively. Also chief secs are more powerful that cab secs cuz at central level you cant do much, more real power with the states admin, due to hold over the police, which in the end only matters. Anybody with powers over the police is the most powerful.
So NSA, PM, CM > Senior ministers of centre > Ministers in state gov> chief sec of states> DM, DGP, HC judge > SC Judge, Cab Sec
In IAS the Level 17 pay scale is guaranteed to any officer who completes 30 years of service at the state government level in the rank of Additional Chief Secretary to the State Government and at least 30-40 percent of the batch gets empanelled to rank of Secretary of GOI which is also the same pay scale and the empanelment is done of only those officers who have served in the past at the Centre level in the rank of deputy secretary , Joint Secretary and Additional Secretary. Not every IAS wants to leave their allotted state cadre.
In judiciary the advocates have a head start over the judicial officers during the selection for District Judge posts and the selection process for judicial officers to such posts is quite vague.
In IAS the officers selected through UPSC are called Direct Recruits whereas in judiciary the advocates who occupy the DJ posts are called Direct Recruits and the Judicial Officers subsequently get downgraded from a DR status to a promotee officer status.
Its because becoming an IAS, IPS, IFS at <30 Years of age is infinitely better than having a sliver of a chance of becoming SJ or HC judge at >50 years of age. Being a lower judiciary judge for majority of your life is just not worth it no matter how you look at it.
You crack judiciary and enter district level judiciary which is good but powerless comparing Higher judicary and courts and morever you are powerless person whoses judgments holds not much value like HC and SC judgement.
I have heard the Advocates in District court create nuisance for judges a lot and go on strikes hampering the judicary. Plus see the Shi*Ty infrastructre of courts.
I fucking went to HC of lucknow just to see Gutka been spit on its premises. the Disctrict courts are so bad in infra and very less security. Last year a criminal was shot in premises of Lucknow district court.
If you cannot reach the HC and SC judiciary then its not good enough considering you can be transferred to some of the worst districts which you have never even heard of.
Who told you an SC judge is more powerful that your DM/ DC? On paper sure, and in the procedure books too. An administrative order must reach in appeal/ suo Moto rarely/ PIL which with reasoning can be reversed by the SC only when found perverse. Even here judges must mostly side with the govt.
A DM can literally start mass projects, get you detained immediately, order investigations in any matter, stop and start ANYTHING in his or her district. On and off the paper. Like ANYTHING
Judiciary has a lot of/in-fact majority of candidates from tier-2 towns who couldn’t secure good placements and thus the exam’s standard isn’t that good anyway.
& 1/3rd seats are reserved for lower judiciary in HCs judgeships (constitutional post) of every states. In miniority yet good number of judges from civil judge grade made to HC every year.
Youtube dekh kr gyan pel do kuch v
To answer your question, A HC judge is easily making much more than your average Secretary, because the former's signature is more binding, final and powerful and the former is protected from prosecution, raid, removal to a very large and dangerous extent.
Will give you an example from the US Supreme Court, where corruption is prosecuted readily-
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/18/opinion/supreme-court-clarence-thomas-corruption.html
@moderators, I am a practitioner at Hyderabad and hope my identity and IP is anonymous and protected. Someone has to do something about the JMs here (god knows what happens at Haryana and UP).
Someone joining judiciary will become a District Judge In last 6 years of his career.
SC judges come out of collegium, merit and cracking has nothing to do with it.
Politics, Judiciary and Executive are the most important power centers.
Politics is dirty, it's a game of luck nepotism etc. Not your academic merit.
Judiciary is powerful. But in India Judiciary is just Supreme Court and High Courts. Subordinate Judiciary is just a clerical court. You have to lick foot for your supervising HC.
Every order you pass in subordinate court has zero value. High Court can reprimand, punish you and change your judgement even without a reason.
Subordinate courts in other countries have real independence. But in India subordinate court judges are mere employees of the supervision high court.
E. G. My papa said he passed a 10 year RI against a cruel rapist. Rapist father had HC judges blessings. HC judge called his colleague judge who was handling the matter. 10 year RI was changed into aquittal. My papa was rebuked.
So subordinate Judiciary doesn't have much power. Judicial Services exam if you clear you become Magistrate (most people) some people become District Judge (age 40 dist judge exam if you clear) or age 50 (if you are going via promotion from magistrate.
Real power vest with high court and Supreme court.
But supreme court and high court are very corrupt and nepotistic. If you are not from a Judicial Family (ex Judges, Bar Council people, Attorney General etc) it is practically impossible to be judge.
Also members of subordinate Judiciary who become hc judges at near retirement 59 years are looked down by hc judge Peers from bar (nepotistic family members).
Judges from bar (family members) are given the most important cases in a high court. Ex judicial Officers who become HC Judges are assigned less important cases.
Chief Justice of HC always prefer bar memebers (nepotistic family) to hear important cases or head important benches.
Supreme court - subordinate judges at present doesn't is just 2%. No power.
UPSC is a competitive exam where real merit prevails. At the age of 26 you have disposal of hundreds of staff. UPSC appointment doesn't have nepotism, corruption and politics. If you could crack UPSC CSE you become an officer. With real powers.
At the age of 26 as a Magistrate you will deal with petty cases. You will max see constable and thief.
Also ias has real powers.
IAS can't be easily dismissed. Subordinate Judiciary - can be easily fired for some mistakes if you are not in good terms with hc.
Subordinate Judiciary is just a clerical court of hc.
Ias is attractive because of real powers at young age. Which sub judge gets at 60 max.
On every LI post rltd to Judiciary v. IAS these fake guys spammed there with fake stories & continued here as they think that except them none on LI knows up & down of both services. 🤣🤣
Also, IAS officers are routinely suspended and dismissed, it's not hard. Sub judges/ magistrates are rarely dismissed, they are "suspended on graft charges" which is an abomination on any healthy democracy. Anybody accused of a crime like corruption with evidence prima facie, must be prosecuted and not sent home with free pay.
That’s why AIJS is a necessity. Not a luxury. But ofc a lot of judges will disagree with this for obvious reasons 🤌
UPSC CSE is an open field job means any valid graduates can appear but for Civil Judge only law graduates can.
Salary of fresher civil judges are nearly 22K more than fresher IAS/IPS.
Also lakhs of candidates appears for UPSC CSE is not only for IAS/IPS but also for other 20 listed job comes under CSE on pan India level. Whereas approx. 20K-60K candidates appears just only for Civil Judge exams in one states. So competition is also very high.
Regarding promotion (even high vacancies due to shortage of IAS) one can get promoted to Joint Secretary grade on completing min.16 year of service (in reality it takes 18yr) & very few made to Secretary level where as for civil judges they get into ADJ grade within 12-17yr of service (on paper min.10yr service required)
I would say on the contrary that a DM or DGP is more powerful that the Cabinet Sec, cuz the latter is bound my upper elected executive and acts as a mouth piece, while the former dictates the administration and criminal justice execution respectively. Also chief secs are more powerful that cab secs cuz at central level you cant do much, more real power with the states admin, due to hold over the police, which in the end only matters. Anybody with powers over the police is the most powerful.
So NSA, PM, CM > Senior ministers of centre > Ministers in state gov> chief sec of states> DM, DGP, HC judge > SC Judge, Cab Sec
In judiciary the advocates have a head start over the judicial officers during the selection for District Judge posts and the selection process for judicial officers to such posts is quite vague.
In IAS the officers selected through UPSC are called Direct Recruits whereas in judiciary the advocates who occupy the DJ posts are called Direct Recruits and the Judicial Officers subsequently get downgraded from a DR status to a promotee officer status.
I have heard the Advocates in District court create nuisance for judges a lot and go on strikes hampering the judicary. Plus see the Shi*Ty infrastructre of courts.
I fucking went to HC of lucknow just to see Gutka been spit on its premises. the Disctrict courts are so bad in infra and very less security. Last year a criminal was shot in premises of Lucknow district court.
If you cannot reach the HC and SC judiciary then its not good enough considering you can be transferred to some of the worst districts which you have never even heard of.
A DM can literally start mass projects, get you detained immediately, order investigations in any matter, stop and start ANYTHING in his or her district. On and off the paper. Like ANYTHING