Got Columbia NYU Chicago admits for LLM. Am from T1 NLU working in T1 law firm for couple of years. Paid off education loan and also need to send some workable amounts back home regularly. Obviously savings aren't enough yet and anyway can't burn all of it for LLM. No other sources as such, should I borrow 50-60 lakhs for it?
Also, what is the risk return in terms of US/UK/Dubai/Singapore jobs in 2-3 years after the LLM?
Because let's face it no point doing it to keep working long term in india T1s. So does it open doors for foreign law firm jobs in the medium term?

Just go for it and stay abroad, even in a crap job if necessary. Better than working in India: den of corruption, nepotism, vote bank politics and mediocracy.

All of those also exist in other countries.

Want to get a job in US?

As an Indian lawyer you can write California bar exam without an US LLM

Prepare for that, get US visa, clear cal bar next year

Then start networking- you will land a job

Will cost you under 5 lakhs including travel to US

Also easier to do this with solicitor qualification exam for UK

Get your license first, then hunt for jobs, you can get remote jobs too

Easier said than done.
Unless pay is 2x-3x minimum from India pay, difficult to stay there

You pity people? Okay. Do you ever also provide reasons for your conclusions to those pitiful people?

Bhakt

first, do some homework with the foreign firms, get some feelers, do some networking, connect with people who had taken similar routes

then, take the decision,

my suggestion would be not to pursue LLM on loan unless you have a specific job in mind and have a raodmap on achieving it

I have seen too many who have taken loans, done their llm, and then gone back to their original firm, it then takes around 3-4 years to pay off the loan

I am a Columbia Grad. The answer to your questions is a lot of ifs and a lot of luck, unfortunately. I had a fantastic experience and I’d recommend it to everyone. However, if the ultimate goal and sole reason to do this is to get a job abroad, my answer would probably change. Specially if you’re planning to take a loan to do this. I don’t know the rest of your background, PQE etc but I’ll just share some facts based on my experience which might help you decide :
- if you’re at a Tier 1 firm, SA/PA level and have decent connections with folk within your firm as well as experience working opposite US counsel in biglaw, your changes of bagging a job become a bit better. An LLM in the US will be useful then.
- if you have debt or funds experience of 3-4 years, UK could be an option after the LLM (but you don’t need an LLM for this necessarily)
- if you’re a capital markets lawyer, your skills are more transferable and there’s a decent change of employment here, but again this isn’t necessarily dependent on a US LLM.

If you do take the bar and pass it, several opportunities do open up but I’m still of the opinion that an LLM is an investment in the long run. What is gives you is an exceptional and immersive experience, solid contacts over the world, and a tag you will have with you for life. I’m still not convinced it’ll pay back in the medium term though, and I wouldn’t take a 50-60 lakh loan to do it.

All the very best either way!

What about if one has background in disputes

80 lakh ka sirf experience bohot mehenga hai dada

80 lakh ki gaadi?

What about NUS?
Does it open up singapore opportunities for international arb

No it does not

Did you come back to India?

Bump + additional.

Firstly, congrats to OP on getting into Colombia.

I’ve come to hate life in India too. Assuming that one does make it into a good law school like Colombia, what is the employability like post completion of LL.M? Especially for someone who’s into litigation?

Despite LL.M from a law school like Colombia, will one still be stuck working (at max) as an immigration lawyer or will good law firms in the US hire such graduates for commercial litigation as well?

I too have similar financial constraints. Mostly will have to borrow from banks. Also have dependents. Will it be worth moving out on a loan and risking it all?

Columbia ki spelling to seekh le bhai

'I hate India' ki seekh li. Kaafi hai wahi.

ooooh

dying LOLLOLOL

Never seen a more misguided post. You clearly have an inferiority complex. India is more than worth it.

I hope you reconsider. Just continue working here.

Bro the guy just meant there's no point doing an LLM for vanity and he/she ties it up to whether more opportunities get opened up. What's the complex here

Someone give Mister Easy a refresher on interpretation of statutes

If you're just a couple of years into a T1, and your end-goal is to move abroad, best to try applying for a training contract (you'll have a better chance at getting one + probably perform better than other TC peers given your years of work ex here). If you're any good your TC can convert into a regular position and you've achieved your goal of moving out of India without the mammoth debt.

If however you want to go to Columbia to enjoy the Ivy League experience and are willing to take a punt (and IMHO that's a very personal decision) - then go for it. I did my (much less expensive) LLM because I wanted an international university experience and think it was one of the best decisions of my life. I wouldn't have taken a 60-lakh loan for it though because you pay a high price for that loan in terms of decisionmaking latitude thereafter.

How do we get TC after college is over?
From a top NLU

Apply directly when intake opens (it's typically open for both graduates as well as students) + leverage alumni network to follow up on your application if possible.

Alumni T1 india mein dila nahi paa rhe magic circle mein bada dila denge

A training contract makes no sense once you're a few years into practice. You'll have to spend a year qualifying the SQE, followed by 2 years where you're shifting between 4 different seats as a trainee. You'll only become an "Associate" after 3-4 years of securing a training contract. It's better to look at options of moving laterally instead of a training contract at this stage of someone's career.

to qualify as a solicitor in the UK one needs 2 years of experience and pass the two components of SQE

for foreign qualified lawyers who already have 2 years of experience they need to register with SRA and pass the SQE, they do not need to have another 2 years of experience in the UK

That's true, but if you are applying for a training contract, then you will have to undergo those 2 years of the training contract anyway, irrespective of the prior experience that you have. If you want to skip those 2 years of the training contract, then you can give the SQE on your own and then look for lateral openings in firms. My initial point still stands, a training contract is a waste of 3 years if you already have prior work experience.

yes, you are correct, however, UK firms would encourage anyone with 3+ yrs of Indian T1 exp to take the lateral route (depends a bit on practice area though) rather than the TC route

Naturally, a lateral move is far better! But it's not always easy to get and if the OP is single-mindedly in pursuit of a life abroad then a TC may be a better bet than a ginormous loan.
For the first 2 years in an Indian firm one is usually doing tons of grunt work anyway, so it's not a massive dilution of experience to move to a TC after that.

There is not much of a correlation between an American LLM and a foreign job. I know people from Tier 1 NLUs who did LLM at H/Y/S who have come back to India (not by choice) and returned to corp firm life here. I also know people from Tier 1 NLUs who worked at Tier-1 firms in India for 5 years since graduation and were hired by London/Singapore/HK firms without any LLM.

Do the LLM if the finances are not a burden. Otherwise, don't.

This actually helps a lot. Thanks.

P.S. Dunno why my earlier post got 5 dislikes though. If it’s about deshbakhti, let me tell you guys I’m far ahead. Honestly paid around 2 L tax last year to drive on broken roads, have no healthcare or even a clean govt. office to have my family’s first and only property registered (paid extra for this). This country sure is a disappointment, does not mean that I don’t love it though. So much so, that I can’t even have strangers assume this about me, that I don’t love my country.

Cheers.

I got into a bunch of universities including Columbia, Cambridge, NYU, NUS, LSE, etc. I chose a somewhat unorthodox option because of my practice area interests. My view (after speaking to many people) is:

1. For Cap Marks, M&A, and Banking (sort of) there is a massive demand both in the US and London for Indian lawyers rn. Many people I know got jobs over the past year post a Columbia / NYU LLM. If these are your practice areas, its worth doing a Columbia LLM despite the cost.

2. For international arbitration, its completely different. Jobs and even internships are hard to come by. Very little attrition. From what I gather, its near impossible in the US (unless you know Spanish). UK and mainly Europe are better.

What are options available in international arbitration? Is there any way to shift laterally from India to a foreign country, or is an LLM necessary?

I think its nearly impossible. I can't say I know anyone who has done this.

How is the LLM from NUS

Firstly, congratulations on your admission! As a former Columbia grad, I can say that the LLM is a great experience. However, not sure if I would have gone through with it if I had to take a loan for the full amount. Advise which I received prior to the LLM, was to not do it if the sole objective is to work abroad. The LLM has a lot of benefits, which are 'softer' in nature and you may not see immediate gain professionally in the short term. Getting a job post the LLM is definitely a possibility, but is contingent on numerous factors such as PQE, practice area, networking skills etc. Wish you the best!

Absolutely not worth it. The llm degree is frowned upon by US employers. If one truly wants to work in the US you need a JD. better to consider other countries where visa requirements are easier.

Not entirely true. A lot of LLMs get jobs in the US. But it does depend on the state of the economy as well. In boom years, law firms hire aggressively and LLM students especially from english-speaking / common law countries are lapped up. Right now of course the macro economic environment is a bit uncertain and it is difficult to say how long this will last.

I think it's worth it. If you have spoken to any recent LLM grads, you'll soon realize that US law firms massively hired and almost all Indian LLMs from schools such as Columbia, NYU, Harvard, etc. got jobs - some folks i know got multiple offers. It wasn't like this in the past and expect the job prospects to cool down a bit, but still be very strong. Last year's LLM hiring was crazy, and getting a job post LLM in the US is TOTALLY doable. So, go for it.

Agree with this.

A big NO.

You should go if you have full clarity about what you want and are driven to get to that point.

One year isn't a long time and you need to have a game plan.

Don't make it up as you go along. That is how you end up with an outcome you aren't happy with.

agreed. the opportunity cost of doing an LLM is huge. 1 year and lots of money. go in with clarity

Go for it, and aim for law firm job they give starting salary of 100,000 dollars a year, you will comfortably pay back the loan. And life in USA, London, is a whole another level

An LLM from a US law school doesn't make getting a law firm job there easy by any means, just a word of caution.

not any US law school, its Columbia, you will atleast get a tier 2 lawfirm

Ok

After a Columbia LLM, and then say getting hired by a US law firm, which visa do you get on? H1-B? If yes, that’s a lottery every year with chances of getting rejected! What then? Deport self?

Okkkk

I know a T1 NLU-Harvard LLM grad who got into a law firm, and is facing visa troubles. Ideally, instead of H1B, you can consider applying for the O-1 visa.