look at all those unpublished comments ! If the mods dont want to deal with this kind of tough issue- they can just refuse to publish any posts about israel/palestine. Instead they publish some and not others- and refuse to check their biases. Of course you are- its human nature to be. If you publish comments on how the IDF is a terrorist organisation but not on how the professors involved here arent even israeli- theyre just american jews- then you are biased. So just quit the game. Have some humility- you dont know enough about enough to not get played by propagandists on either side. Keep the forum for discussing law schools/ firms/ courts/ etc and not this sort of culture war stuff.
The Dean has a track record of showing support for Zionists, and to be clear anti-Zionism does not equal to anti-Semitism. As a Berkeley Law alum, I've seen a prominent Berkeley Law professor express strong views on the Israel-Palestine issue all over LinkedIn (which I think he has every right to), but he has gone as far as publishing an op-ed suggesting that students at UCB who support Palestine shouldn't even be considered for jobs at law firms (https://www.wsj.com/articles/dont-hire-my-anti-semitic-law-students-protests-colleges-universities-jews-palestine-6ad86ad5?mod=opinion_lead_pos9). The Dean has remained relatively quiet and has even, at times, defended this professor. The Dean has been extremely complicit in silencing the Palestinian voices on campus, which is disappointing given his staunch advocacy for free speech.
right- but jews had bodies and hair and skin and records kept by germans themselves to prove the holocaust. And it would be a damn stretch to say jews did anything to provoke their slaughter. Hamas on the other hand went on a barbaric carnage, raped women, killed babies, and kidnapped grandmas . And 33k is a number by Hamas run agencies and by all independent accounts it appears that israel is trying to minimise civilian casualties in an urban war where theyre trying to bring hamas to heel, while at the same time theyre being attacked by iran and the hezbollah. Having said that- Any civilian death is horrible and I wish it didnt happen. And I wish Hamas would surrender and return the hostages- who are most likely dead- and accept the ceasefire terms israel has repeatedly offered them.
You will accuse me of propaganda- and I will accuse you of the same. Truth is war involves a lot of propaganda and the truth only really becomes clear many years later.
The idea that individual jews anywhere ( these professors arent even israeli) can be protested anywhere for something they have as little control over as you and I? reverse that logic- would you be okay with jews getting into the homes of palestinians and shouting at them about hamas? I would think that would be pretty awful. Its not what we do in civil society. thats just not how any problems are solved or any truth is attained.
You may think people earn the privilege of knowing the truth or being able to speak it by claiming victimhood. I just dont think thats true.
I get it- you have a lot of empathy for palestinians- You think you should be on the arabs side because brown skin, and you think all jews in israel are white oppressors even if a good chunk of israelis arent white. Youre on insta all the time seeing videos of babies being harmed. You have been on a steady social media diet from one side (cause thats what the algorithm does) that makes you think there is no complexity and everything is clear. And you want to think doing something is better than doing nothing so you want to come to this website and talk about how everyone should go harass jews. Youre so convinced youre on the right side that you dont think its even possible that youre wrong. Consider if being so close minded is a quality you aspire to? be introspective for one second and consider that you might not have the oracle that sees through the fog of war- like any of us dont.
you think the dean of berkeley law can dictate israeli military policy? this is nothing other than a student wanting to gain clout by bothering and harassing a law professor.
A liberal is an RW person, but moderate. He/she will turn RW at the slightest inconvenience. A liberal is RW lite.
A liberal is opposed to the left, get this into your thick skulls my dear RWs of LI. If you are a liberal you're an RW my dear liberals of LI.
RW wants to push the window right. A liberal wants the status quo, no matter how right the window is. Liberal will not shift the window left and will resist citing free market for economy and traditions and for social issues. But will extract minor concessions like the right of women to be in Police/Army/CEO/Leadership positions.
They will celebrate such things as a female with power equivalent to a man oppress and exploit. But they will not give a damn about the oppressed woman.
Left really wants to shift the window left.
Liberals are dishonest wussies. You need not worry about them RWs of India.
Catherine Fisk is a professor of labor law, so she is a typical bleeding-heart liberal whose heart bleeds for the poor and the working class. Yet, when similar left-wing issues started in her own house, she became upset and violent.
Therein lies the flaw of democracy—fundamentally, no human likes dissent against themselves. Freedom of speech is only accepted when your side uses it against your opponents!
The only armed terrorist group that one can see in that region is the IDF. To rescue 250 hostages, they have killed over 33000 civilians already. I don't expect anything from you other than bigotry.
Many people disagreed when the Jews themselves had been targets of genocide. Didn't make that any less real. The fact is Israel has already killed more than 33k Palestinians over the last few months. You and I having the luxury to debate about that doesn't mean zilch. If any Israeli anywhere in the world is supporting the actions of their government, then they can be peacefully protested against so long as they aren't being targeted with violence.
Because a large number of Israeils across the world are still supporting the actions of the Israeli government. Those people should be protested against no matter where they are.
you have to understand that as fervently as you believe that to be the case. Other people just disagree that Israel is engaging in any kind of genocide. And the fact that they disagree, doesnt make the historical persecution of jews any less real.
No one has to be open to getting flak in their own home.
These people have got brainwashed beyond repair. Protest against the state that's doing the violence and the countries that are supporting the violence and not against select individuals for their religion or place of residence. The same people will have problems if a gang of Hindu protesters enter the house of a Muslim and start protesting because a certain Muslim terrorist group has killed 10 people in a far-off country. These individual attacks should stop especially when that individual has nothing to do with what Israel is doing. The same thing happened in NLS when an Israeli Law firm partner came for a guest lecture. Why attack individuals? Protest against the state and if possible send aid to Palestine.
If these people are supporting Israel's current actions of massacring the Palestinians, then they can't hide behind the Holocaust survivor shield. Their countrymen are at present doing every bit evil an act as the Nazis did. If they support that, then they should be open to getting the flak too. If they don't openly support the Israeli action, then they shouldn't have to face this merely because of their Jewish identity.
It’s his house. Even the lawn. No Jewish person should have to deal with being told that they don’t have a right to peace in their own homes because of misguided college activists. I mean- for all you know these people might be related to holocaust survivors- they don’t need to hear a diatribe on how evil Jews are.
Assaulted - she was so gentle I literally thought she was hugging the student. And if someone comes into your house and you ask them to leave and they refuse - you have every right to push them out.
There is no right to free speech inside someone else’s property. She was an invited guest who was asked to leave and she behaved poorly.
If you don’t think that’s right - consider if you want Israelites coming into your home to lecture you on violence and butchery of oct 7.
Shall we send of Bajrang dal folks to your lawn to chant JSR all the time ? Or do they not get free speech?
I’m a leftie but this isn’t civil discourse, this is trying to score political points at the cost of civil discourse.
I stand with the girl and the other protestors. The Dean's house might be a private space with First Amendment restrictions, but his lawns cannot be, especially when he is throwing a party. Also, Catherine Fisk had no justification to touch the girl and pull her shirt, be it in a public or private space. Both she and her husband should resign.
Viral video link below, followed by an excerpt from a news report from the LA Times. Note that the Dean's wife, who grabs the girl student who is speaking, is eminent law professor Catherine Fisk. What are your thoughts? Should the Dean and Prof Fisk have given the protestors a chance to speak? Why did Prof Fisk physically grab the girl? Was that proper of Prof Fisk to do so? Do you agree that it was assault? Also, can the protest be called antisemitic just because the Dean and his wife are Jewish? So what if they are Jewish? Finally, aren't the protestors protected under the First Amendment?
What was supposed to be a celebratory dinner at a dean’s home for graduating UC Berkeley law students on Tuesday turned into an angry confrontation over the Israel-Hamas war, free speech and accusations of anti-Muslim and anti-Jewish hatred.
Several dozen law school students were invited to the Oakland home of School of Law Dean Erwin Chemerinsky and his wife, law school professor Catherine Fisk, for the first of three dinners they planned to host. The event, which took place in the couple’s backyard garden with white-cloth-covered tables and students seated among lemon trees, was to recognize the work of law students and provide an opportunity to enjoy casual time with the two prominent professors.
But the dinner quickly devolved after a Palestinian American law student who was invited stood up in front of guests and attempted to give a speech about Palestinians dying in Gaza and her desire for the university to divest from corporations involved in Israel’s war and its occupation and blockade of Palestinian lands.
Chemerinsky approached the student with his arms folded and shouted at her: “Please leave. No. Please leave. Please leave.” Fisk grabbed away the student’s microphone, while saying, “It is not your house. It is my house. And I want you to leave.”
The student who spoke, Malak Afaneh, said that Fisk assaulted her and that her free speech rights were denied.
Chemerinsky, who is Jewish, says that the incident is the latest in antisemitic attacks on him and that free speech does not extend to his home. The university, which has been embroiled in months of protests over the Israel-Hamas war, is standing behind the dean.
“I am appalled and deeply disturbed by what occurred at Dean Chemerinsky’s home last night,” UC Berkeley Chancellor Carol Christ said in a statement. “I have been in touch with him to offer my support and sympathy. While our support for free speech is unwavering, we cannot condone using a social occasion at a person’s private residence as a platform for protest.”
In an interview, University of California President Michael Drake called the incident “very unfortunate.”
UC Board of Regents Chair Rich Leib said he condemned the student’s actions and called it “deplorable.... The individuals that targeted this event did so simply because it was hosted by a dean who is Jewish. These actions were antisemitic, threatening, and do not reflect the values of this university.”
You will accuse me of propaganda- and I will accuse you of the same. Truth is war involves a lot of propaganda and the truth only really becomes clear many years later.
The idea that individual jews anywhere ( these professors arent even israeli) can be protested anywhere for something they have as little control over as you and I? reverse that logic- would you be okay with jews getting into the homes of palestinians and shouting at them about hamas? I would think that would be pretty awful. Its not what we do in civil society. thats just not how any problems are solved or any truth is attained.
You may think people earn the privilege of knowing the truth or being able to speak it by claiming victimhood. I just dont think thats true.
I get it- you have a lot of empathy for palestinians- You think you should be on the arabs side because brown skin, and you think all jews in israel are white oppressors even if a good chunk of israelis arent white. Youre on insta all the time seeing videos of babies being harmed. You have been on a steady social media diet from one side (cause thats what the algorithm does) that makes you think there is no complexity and everything is clear. And you want to think doing something is better than doing nothing so you want to come to this website and talk about how everyone should go harass jews. Youre so convinced youre on the right side that you dont think its even possible that youre wrong. Consider if being so close minded is a quality you aspire to? be introspective for one second and consider that you might not have the oracle that sees through the fog of war- like any of us dont.
Get this right.
A liberal is an RW person, but moderate. He/she will turn RW at the slightest inconvenience. A liberal is RW lite.
A liberal is opposed to the left, get this into your thick skulls my dear RWs of LI. If you are a liberal you're an RW my dear liberals of LI.
RW wants to push the window right. A liberal wants the status quo, no matter how right the window is. Liberal will not shift the window left and will resist citing free market for economy and traditions and for social issues. But will extract minor concessions like the right of women to be in Police/Army/CEO/Leadership positions.
They will celebrate such things as a female with power equivalent to a man oppress and exploit. But they will not give a damn about the oppressed woman.
Left really wants to shift the window left.
Liberals are dishonest wussies. You need not worry about them RWs of India.
Therein lies the flaw of democracy—fundamentally, no human likes dissent against themselves. Freedom of speech is only accepted when your side uses it against your opponents!
Anyway this is before ICJ, why are you passing judgments and why you expect your judgment to be taken seriously
https://twitter.com/ByRakeshSimha/status/1779416959517614494
No one has to be open to getting flak in their own home.
Also, why on earth is an Indian like you getting your panties in a bunch for something so mundane on the other side of the world?
Are you the type that says #notmypresident to Joe Biden/ Trump / Obama?
Or are you the type that protests for gun rights in America in Bandra? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Assaulted - she was so gentle I literally thought she was hugging the student. And if someone comes into your house and you ask them to leave and they refuse - you have every right to push them out.
There is no right to free speech inside someone else’s property. She was an invited guest who was asked to leave and she behaved poorly.
If you don’t think that’s right - consider if you want Israelites coming into your home to lecture you on violence and butchery of oct 7.
Shall we send of Bajrang dal folks to your lawn to chant JSR all the time ? Or do they not get free speech?
I’m a leftie but this isn’t civil discourse, this is trying to score political points at the cost of civil discourse.
🇵🇸✊
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jvmMHJLvl9c
What was supposed to be a celebratory dinner at a dean’s home for graduating UC Berkeley law students on Tuesday turned into an angry confrontation over the Israel-Hamas war, free speech and accusations of anti-Muslim and anti-Jewish hatred.
Several dozen law school students were invited to the Oakland home of School of Law Dean Erwin Chemerinsky and his wife, law school professor Catherine Fisk, for the first of three dinners they planned to host. The event, which took place in the couple’s backyard garden with white-cloth-covered tables and students seated among lemon trees, was to recognize the work of law students and provide an opportunity to enjoy casual time with the two prominent professors.
But the dinner quickly devolved after a Palestinian American law student who was invited stood up in front of guests and attempted to give a speech about Palestinians dying in Gaza and her desire for the university to divest from corporations involved in Israel’s war and its occupation and blockade of Palestinian lands.
Chemerinsky approached the student with his arms folded and shouted at her: “Please leave. No. Please leave. Please leave.” Fisk grabbed away the student’s microphone, while saying, “It is not your house. It is my house. And I want you to leave.”
The student who spoke, Malak Afaneh, said that Fisk assaulted her and that her free speech rights were denied.
Chemerinsky, who is Jewish, says that the incident is the latest in antisemitic attacks on him and that free speech does not extend to his home. The university, which has been embroiled in months of protests over the Israel-Hamas war, is standing behind the dean.
“I am appalled and deeply disturbed by what occurred at Dean Chemerinsky’s home last night,” UC Berkeley Chancellor Carol Christ said in a statement. “I have been in touch with him to offer my support and sympathy. While our support for free speech is unwavering, we cannot condone using a social occasion at a person’s private residence as a platform for protest.”
In an interview, University of California President Michael Drake called the incident “very unfortunate.”
UC Board of Regents Chair Rich Leib said he condemned the student’s actions and called it “deplorable.... The individuals that targeted this event did so simply because it was hosted by a dean who is Jewish. These actions were antisemitic, threatening, and do not reflect the values of this university.”
https://www.news18.com/world/dinner-party-at-berkeley-law-school-deans-house-goes-berserk-as-student-starts-speaking-about-gaza-war-video-8848123.html
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-04-10/uc-berkeley-law-school-dean-clashes-with-pro-palestinian-activists
https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/uc-berkeley-dean-dinner-party-palestinian-american-student-gaza-killings-speech-2525856-2024-04-11
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-11/berkeley-dean-who-defends-free-speech-laments-antisemitic-attack