The point of this post is not to provoke anyone, ive simply seen teams run by men to be better functioning, far less toxic (importantly, the SA/PA are far far less toxic), and more able to deal with pressure without cracking and losing their shit.
This comes from 5+ years of work at a top tier firm in Mumbai (where this was mostly the case) and a top tier firm in Bangalore (where teams run by women were all toxic, and teams under men were all but one, healthily managed).
I understand this doesnt extend to other spheres where i have seen women being better at managing things. But law firms def have this skew from my experience, and i want to see if its true across firms, and if so why?
Men don't take women seriously if they're nice. So we often have to be aggressive and sometimes nasty. We don't like it either. But I've seen male subordinates do things that my male colleagues have told them nicely once. The same kind of thing if I ask they won't do it till I remind or yell at them.
This is not unique to law, it happens in other professions as well. Some women have written about it as well - look up.
Okay, but women are shitty managers of other women as well, who generally vouch for having been managed better by a male senior or partner.
Ofc this might be a very new development and only post the metoo era and with men understanding that sexist outlooks are not only outdated but can also gut their own careers.
Yeah, women have the same problem with female authority. You won't believe the number of girls in my class who were happy to wear low necked tops to bend and giggle over gross male partners and who said they hated women bosses because they were all 'bitchy'. Most of them grew up later but I pity all the women who had to manage them.
This is the silliest shit I have heard, and just to support toxicity by women managers. "Oh we are sorry we have to be toxic and belittle you guys, because otherwise you won't listen na..I feel bad too when I do that..but have to". Load of crap. Dehumanized people.
I have seen female SAs/ Partners being the meanest to their female associates. Now please dont tell even those female juniors dont take their female seniors seriously unless yelled at.
I agree. There are times I feel compelled to 'be toxic', or haul up juniors more sharply, beacuse a mere nudge by a male partner is taken more seriously than a a clearly made request, with complete instructions, from me. This is applicable for both male and female juniors. Some female juniors, like a post below also mentions, are happier giggling for the men, than being supportive of female seniors. It's fine, if they come to a senior position, which I hope they do, they'll know what we were talking about.
Some women are nice and calm and mature and patient etc like ive heard this about Archana at JSA. Most women lawyers though are like your topper didis who dont know anything but getting highest marks, highest billables, getting validation from higher ups etc so yeah, cant handle pressure and lose their shit at the slightest thing going amiss.
Men on the other hand who become partners ive seen have a sense of humour, and dont fret over little things, dont micromanage etc. Like 90% of them are very easy to deal with, some are intimidating but still not toxic.
There are exceptions, some men are also v insecure and not very masculine or give off the same topper didi energy. I know one such male partner in 3L BLR.
From my experience, it's women partners who are all rounders and deliver the best and most men arent. Hence it differs based on experience of others, lets not make generalisations.
Please do not make such generalisation, there are a lot of toxic and rude af male partners and equally many who are women, I dont think this has to do with gender particularly. I dont see why you assume that a woman shouldn't behave like that when it's normal for male partners to be like that.
Second, women are not taken as seriously as men and have to put up a rude farce to get that, if they are calm and happy to everyone they are taken for granted.
I have worked with a lot female partners and let me tell you, all of them were more smart, understanding and wayyy less toxic than most of the male partners I worked with.
I agree with you. Women managers somehow just don't cut it.
I work at a T2 boutique in Mumbai which is famous for being a female driven firm (i think we have like 83% women staff or something). We have 4 partners, 3 of them are women. These 3 women have made life hell for everyone, the non-stop shouting and yelling at every little thing, their random whimsical nature, that mean girl attitude, honestly it's very difficult to stick around here, no wonder we have such a great attrition rate. I have worked with male seniors too in my previous firms but comparatively they're way more relaxed and easy to work with.
Ive worked with 1 male partner who was an absolute delight. A friend, confidante, mentor and an inspiration.
1 female partner - the devil herself. 100% fit to that rich sociopath trope, with the fake laugh and the lack of recognition of others as equal human beings, the works.
2 male midlevels - one intense, one laidback. Both smart and capable and sincere with work and both very mature and calm and well spoken and not in the least toxic.
3 female midlevels - two manipulative fake ass bullies, one chill and fun one. Never felt like taking the chill one for granted, in fact worked several late nights and even all nighters on a deal with her, and looking back it was more fun than stressful. As for the other two, wish they dropped one fine day and id never have to see them again.
I think good leaders and managers are secure and reassured themselves. Not many women are like this, its their insecurity and g-phati that makes them good associates but being a good associate doesnt make you a good manager.
Thats a fault in firm structure that will probably never be fixed, which is why you have so many insecure, inadequate people constantly vying for validation from partners at first and then from white people, rich people when they become partners. And then perversely making up for it by bullying their underlings.
This comes from 5+ years of work at a top tier firm in Mumbai (where this was mostly the case) and a top tier firm in Bangalore (where teams run by women were all toxic, and teams under men were all but one, healthily managed).
I understand this doesnt extend to other spheres where i have seen women being better at managing things. But law firms def have this skew from my experience, and i want to see if its true across firms, and if so why?
This is not unique to law, it happens in other professions as well. Some women have written about it as well - look up.
Ofc this might be a very new development and only post the metoo era and with men understanding that sexist outlooks are not only outdated but can also gut their own careers.
Men on the other hand who become partners ive seen have a sense of humour, and dont fret over little things, dont micromanage etc. Like 90% of them are very easy to deal with, some are intimidating but still not toxic.
There are exceptions, some men are also v insecure and not very masculine or give off the same topper didi energy. I know one such male partner in 3L BLR.
Second, women are not taken as seriously as men and have to put up a rude farce to get that, if they are calm and happy to everyone they are taken for granted.
I work at a T2 boutique in Mumbai which is famous for being a female driven firm (i think we have like 83% women staff or something). We have 4 partners, 3 of them are women. These 3 women have made life hell for everyone, the non-stop shouting and yelling at every little thing, their random whimsical nature, that mean girl attitude, honestly it's very difficult to stick around here, no wonder we have such a great attrition rate. I have worked with male seniors too in my previous firms but comparatively they're way more relaxed and easy to work with.
Ive worked with 1 male partner who was an absolute delight. A friend, confidante, mentor and an inspiration.
1 female partner - the devil herself. 100% fit to that rich sociopath trope, with the fake laugh and the lack of recognition of others as equal human beings, the works.
2 male midlevels - one intense, one laidback. Both smart and capable and sincere with work and both very mature and calm and well spoken and not in the least toxic.
3 female midlevels - two manipulative fake ass bullies, one chill and fun one. Never felt like taking the chill one for granted, in fact worked several late nights and even all nighters on a deal with her, and looking back it was more fun than stressful. As for the other two, wish they dropped one fine day and id never have to see them again.
Thats a fault in firm structure that will probably never be fixed, which is why you have so many insecure, inadequate people constantly vying for validation from partners at first and then from white people, rich people when they become partners. And then perversely making up for it by bullying their underlings.