Experts & Views
From INTERNSHIP to PPO (Pre Placement Offer). Wake up and smell the coffee.
Q. Are internships helpful in getting a PPO. How do I go about it?
Ans. Yes they are. Why...I'll tell you later. First get your hands on the PPO thingy.
GETTING A PPO
1.) You have to be in the 4th/ 5th year for that. (If you are in the 5 year course that is).
2.) Then, have a portfolio which is perfectly aligned to the place you are interning.
A 5th year student, interning at Anand and Anand (a leading IP firm) and expecting a PPO should have done at least couple of internships in IP boutiques, presented/ published a dozen papers on the subject and also completed some good add-on courses on IP.
3.) So you are at Anand and Anand. A teenie-weenie 4th year student. Now impress the boss you are working with.
Impress him with your research skills. Pop up the best caselaw for the best law which applies to the case.
Strain your mental sinews. Come up with brilliant analysis. Impress him/her.
Come up with brilliant plaints, legal opinions. Show-off your analytical and writing skills. Impress.
Be in your best formal clothes, best smile, neatest hairdo and shiniest shoes. Impress him/her.
Look like a studious student. Don’t be the dude.
Be the first to arrive. Leave last. Slog like anything. Interact with the associates at lunch. Impress everybody.
Ask great questions. About his/her lawyerly life and about life in general. About what coffee he likes.
Be good with the coffee. Impress.
Be a legal beagle. Wag your tail, always. Sniff for opportunities. Impress.
Be a legal eagle. Observe keenly. Show the splendour in the flight. Impress.
WHY INTERNSHIPS?
1.) Internships are like an add-on course you do.
For example you do a cyber law course from Asian School of Cyber Laws and learn about cyber law in theory (though it may have many 'real life' examples). On the other hand or the same hand (doesn't matter...depends how dexterous you are in using your hands) interning under a stud cyber law lawyer will provide you with a decent practical knowledge of the subject.
So a good 4 week internship, in a way, replicates doing a 100 hour practical course on the subject. (Note the word good. Most internships aren't good). Ah! Ha!
2.) Internships tell that you have an inherent interest in the subject.
In first year, for my NGO internship I intern at NABARD. Then I do internships only in legal departments of banks and niche law firms practicing banking law. The recruiter can bank upon the fact that I have an interest in Banking Law. (PJ...I know).
3.) Every skill gets chiselled.
Work ethics, practical skills, interpersonal skills, communication skills, THIS skill and THAT skill.
PS- Ideally, one should intern to explore and not to pigeonhole oneself. Coz when the cat comes, the pigeon closes its eyes. He is gobbled up. The pigeon is then not in the pigeonhole. He rather becomes an a**h***. (I might go down in the history books for this quote). Ha!
PS 2- When LegalPoet doesn't write poetry, he deems himself fit to give some free advice.
PS 3- As said before (read comment # 9), I love animals.
PS 4- I'll keep on blasting law firms and hounding Kian till they don't sponsor some goodies for the bloggers. Why is it always that the writers have to starve. :P
PS 5- Then you can't blame us the writers for blowing our own trumpet...or posting the links to our own blogs. :)
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Legal Dodo
but what about those people who have interest in sumting nt prevalent in India...!!
I am interested in International investment Law bit it does'nt have any scope in India. You did not speak about that. Otherwise this is a brilliant piece..
You should check out the book "Anonymous Lawyer" by Jeremy Blachman or anonymouslawyer.blogspot.com - you could be the desi version of him :)
Investment has a huge scope in India. So should investment law. Or maybe, law is antithetical to any constructive activity. Ha!
On a serious note, do post it on the FORUM. Kian and co. will make sure that this gets adequately addressed.
@Legal Leo
Thanks.
Thanks. I thought I had heard enough about reservations for today. Thanks for pointing out that reservations rule. Everywhere. Everything. Including our minds. (wanted to get philosophical on this...am not in the mood...what a failure I am).
@8
What makes you think I am desi. I am from Zimbabwe. Yo Maan!
Hone your skills buddy. Impress. ;)
I see a great future ahead of you.
Cheers!
I'll need all the gifts of the gab tomorrow for my presentation @SK's class :P
Impress...ummm...talk of building castles in the air. :D
The wit on this kid... the wit. Love it. You made me laugh so hard that my laptop screen is smeared with mucous, and my keyboard will probably malfunction given the tears streaming down my cheeks have inhabited the random spaces therein.
P.S. P G Wodehouse has nothing on you.
But dont do internships just with the idea that you want PPO. It will add the pressure....
Thanks for the flattery. And don't worry...I'll buy you a new laptop or maybe the smaller, cheaper netbook. Costs 16k.
Btw...z anybody here to sponsor the netbook for the best blogger? [Yah...I pose this question zillion of times. But till I don't get an answer my questioning won't stop (another quotable quote...eh?)]
@13
Thank you.
@Gyan
Nice advice. But actually the history behind the blog post is this: Yesterday, there was a simiar query on the forum. "How internships help? Do they help in PPOs..."
I started writing a reply. Verbal diahrrohea followed. The reply went long. I thought...hang on! Why not a blog on the same lines.
ADD ON courses may not be helpful … in my student days (which was recent) a Tier A law firm clearly mentioned that stuff like “completed some levels of CA or CS” (which btw is better than most add-ons) need not be mentioned in the CV. So a WIPO / NCFM certificate course or a summer thing from ISIL may not be of much use. But yes, if you go on an exchange program to a good university, that may help.
Internships show focus BUT lawschool education is not about a PPO and recruiters understand that. SO don’t think you need 3-4 good internships with big corporate firms only if you are targeting an AMSS / Luthra job. You have to do NGOs and courts initially but once you do a couple of internships in a particular area (which is possible by the time you finish 4th year), they’ll suffice to show focus and commitment in an area.
Bottom line … if you have 2-3 good publications, 2-3 good internships and a decent CGPA, and you are in a top lawschool, a job isn’t very difficult (these are the exact words of a recruiting partner of a Tier A firm). But I guess every1 understands this anyways … at least the PPO material ppl :P
PS - As regards PPO, its true that they will happen if you can impress and you click AND they also depend on the recruitment strategy of the firm at that point in time (despite impressing, you may get a recall instead of PPO esp. in 4th yr. esp. post-global slowdown … now foreign firms aren’t hungry and Indian recruiters are drawing comfort from that). Pre-2009, it was possible that a good CGPA holder got an offer in end of 3rd year itself to ensure that s/he wasn’t picked up by a foreign firm in 4th year.
Advice well taken buddy. By a dozen, I never meant...ummm...twelve.
And yes. 3-4 good publications are ideal. But a different take on this could be this:
You are in the middle of second year
And some particular law..(say IP)
Has fantastically caught your fancy.
You do a small add on thingy too.
For publications...you can't get through JILI
Or the Harvard Law Review.
Now what to do? Research well.
Indlaw and the like would take it... and bells
To doors of opportunity wound ring.
That would show windows to an internship
In some small IP boutique... a step
To bigger courses and bigger things,
Till you get the JOB and YELP!!!
I AM LOVIN' IT!
If you are not a fierce long jumper take ten serene steps and hit the mark (Another quotable quote by me).
PS- the above was being written normally till I realised that some things rhymed and so turned it into a poetry piece. Excuse me for the profanity please...profanity to the Poet's profession which now has 'CLIENTS' too. (Oh! Can't believe it. I churned another one)
Getting too pally with the bosses would also mean spilling some dirt about an alumnus of your law school that your boss hates.. What do u do? You spill dirt and forego every opportunity of that alumnus recommending your name during campus placement.. Dont do the "illegal" work by spilling dirt and the Boss will forget u did such a good job with the "legal' work!
Well, u indicated a wrong standard by saying a "dozen" even if you meant “not exactly 12” mate. If Indlaw articles are your standard, the lesser said the better about chances of a PPO. And you will have JILI, Company LJ, and a foreign publication maybe, if you are PPO material. [Students do get published in JILI ... i have one myself co-authored with a faculty. Neither of us used any "contacts".] If not JILI, 3-4 other good journals should happen for PPO material ppl :D
And after all the effort u suggested ….you portray a small boutique / a job where u celebrate McDonald style as the end result (the last bit on McD being written in jest buddy and not literally – same as ur “dozen”) !!! :P And the composition, though commendable in terms of uniqueness in expression, hardly helps.
@ # 21 – thanks for giving readers a real perspective.
@ All student readers – my limited point, which many of u would know and second, is this – good CGPA (top 10 maybe, though not necessarily), 3-4 good publications (you know what I mean) and two good internships (one preferably Tier A firm) in your area of interest is difficult in itself to attain and from the 50-70 odd people who manage that from the top law schools every year, some get PPOs (which depends on market function too). So don’t go for that almost a dozen articles in small journals and the add ons which will not even be considered unless ur CGPA is good.
Cheers,
# 18
I concur.
What I am saying is this: A small publication will ease your way for an internship in a smaller firm (in say the 2nd year..if you are gung-ho about a specific area of law) which then will be of help when you intern in a BIG firm (practicing the same area of law).
Of help it will be in three ways:
1.) You actually get to the BIG firm. Coz you have an internship in a smaller firm.
2.) Experience in the small firm helps.
3.) You impress.
The larger picture (according to me) is this:
For PPOs: the bigger the better; for internships: small is useful. In reality the size really doesn't matter.
(Quotable quote number....I lost count...someone please help) :P
It is just like our teahcers and lecturers. Some may have knowledge but are very boring. If a teacher can present the material in a humourous or exciting way, the makes him or her a good teacher. PRESENTATION MATTERS.
Also, the article is very comprehensive and i cannot think of any other point. I would like to thank whosoever has written this. Some new and non obvious points were also there. And the way they have been engrained into my mind because of the superb style of delivery is amazing.
Yes. Poets are egocentric. They generally carry the weight of the world on the nibs of their pens (This really didn't make sense...I need to get going).
So ummm...they position themselves at the ceter of the universe...ummm...coz some physics law says that carrying something from the center is the easier (umm..did that make sense?)
And for the same reason school bags with large straps feel lighter and bearable (I'll skip this one from my list of quotable quotes....or does this do well?).
Ok fine...And for the same reason as to why school bags with large straps feel lighter and bearable, poets with larger egos feel lighter and more bearable. Ummm...coz the ego is inflated...so as to say its filled with air...and air is obviously lighter...do u get it?
But coz of the oxygen...air lights up...the light air I mean...it sort of catches fire...and flares up the inflated egoistic balloon...which reaches the space and ummm...thatz where poems are made...up their on the 9th cloud...so you have to have inflated balloonistic ego (is there a word called balloonistic???...no na...my own egoistic creation you see).
Humor peppered with some really sound advice. It assures me that the PC is in good hands! :)
Very entertaining, interesting and amusing literary piece my friend. Keep spreading sweetness and light in the gloomy, bitchy world of our law school. Well, at least humor! Good piece. Keep it up.
@ legal poet: "verbal diahrrohea" ROFL!
nice post there man. like your quotable quotes but using them too often takes away the impact. some awesome gyan there though i dont thnk add-ons really matter much (its a different thing that i have done a few myself and intend to complete a few more but it is more of a 'u r interested in some particular stuff thingy' than a CV booster)
completely agree when you say that there should be incentives for bloggers. I wont mind a netbook personally though even less expensive stuff will do :D (for either of them i will have to come out of my self imposed exile i have gone into out of sheer laziness). The best incentive are comments though and you sure seem to be getting a lot of them :) Keep up the good work!
@#18: thanks for the sound advice
You could have kept PC out of this! Ha!
@26
I don't agree. 28 gives a fitting answer.
@ legal poet: "verbal diahrrohea" ROFL!
nice post there man. like your quotable quotes but using them too often takes away the impact. some awesome gyan there though i dont thnk add-ons really matter much (its a different thing that i have done a few myself and intend to complete a few more but it is more of a 'u r interested in some particular stuff thingy' than a CV booster)
completely agree when you say that there should be incentives for bloggers. I wont mind a netbook personally though even less expensive stuff will do :D (for either of them i will have to come out of my self imposed exile i have gone into out of sheer laziness). The best incentive are comments though and you sure seem to be getting a lot of them :) Keep up the good work!
@#18: thanks for the sound advice
Dhruv is my friend. So we do have some insider jokes. Excuse us for that.
And as far comments are concerned...32 till now...10 have been of my own...at least four by my friends...so...not as great as it looks...but yeah...I love my blog posts.
And comments are like teddys...you can adore them, toss them, rip them apart or even give it to your Rotweiller for some guard dog training...(Sidhu you see...his impact is omnipresent...how good a Sidhuism was this?)
And btw...all said and done...the cash awards for bloggers are awesome. You don't get that much money even for the great manupatra essay competition...
Aand this is so much more fun...here I can write about teddy bears...there I would have to write about some protection of wildlife act which protects sloth bears from big brown bears.
P.S. keep forcing me to read ur articles.
(Dear readers, please ignore this. This is very very insider stuff).
ascertain d identity b4 commenting instead of IP msgng at 12 in d nyt.
p.s. keep writing :)
Poet, you are pretty profound whn you write such quotes. Cat, accoriding to me should be the law firm's recuriter. Right? And the students who are recruited become the asshole. So even here... your thoughts are the same as that in the dasamar poem....nice.
I have some very basic(read dumb) questions:
1. How do i knw if the publication i am getting is a "good one". How do you define those and classify them as better from the rest.
2. My CGPA is good enough and on the rise still, but i havent done any conferences yet.
How many of these should i do in my 5 years?
3. Till now i have only interned in NGO, Trial and High Court; should i now move on to firms or wait till the 3rd year?
4. What exactly do big law firms look for in your CV?
5. How many moots under my belt? Only hv one till now.
So these are the few fundamental questions riddling my mind and my seniors i believe are the biggest a**es around. Hence i turn for your advice.
Ps. Some of ur quotes are worth mentioning and being plagiarized as my own. Just kidding :P
Ps. 2: An Nlu product, eh?
1.) Publication is a good one if the 'public' feels so. Ask your seniors/faculty etc. Look who all contribute towards the journal etc etc. Google the journal if you want.
2.) Do a conference/paper presentation if you like the idea/topic.
3.) Do what you want. If you want to joing corporate law, move on to firms. But, according to me better explore other areas of law when you are in second/ third year. Coz in the 4th year, the herd gets bigger. The bigger the herd the bigger is the herd-push.
4.) On what do firms look for. They look for a competitive guy, someone who has slogged and will slog, till he is dead, as dead as the log. (I have a rhyming rhematism) BTW...LI has covered a lot on this. Do go thorugh the career counsel page on this website.
5.) I don't moot. I guess winning is more importnat than just participating. Win a decent one and it looks good in your CV.
PS 1- Thank you.
PS 2- Yes I am at a national law school. And am in second year. I am good and my seniors are great... I am good coz my seniors are great.
2. How many have you done? Not comparing, just curious :P
3. I'm thinking of sticking with the courts this internship. Shall move on to bigger things next sem.
4. I do slog hard. The only quality worth mentioning in my CV..haha.
5. Good to see someone who doesn't moot. Coz everyone in my University moots as if someone has forced them at gunpoint. Or just coz their friends are mooting(That would be me :D)
PS 1- Looking forward to more blog posts and with that more discussions
PS 2- Same as you, 2nd Year, National Law School Product in Making. We are like swine flu, we are everywhere.
Did a human rights workshop (which was really cool...touched on gender, sexuality etc), the ISIL summer course (some professors were brilliant) and the WIPO's IP course (its free...yeeee!)
Plan do some some writing-research/education-coaching-mediation stuff for a career. Mainstream jobs bore me. (Ah! wishes streaming from teenage angst)!
Advice to the writer - be funny, but please don't try to be funny if you're not going to be. It is torturous. The only thing which pulled me through this page was the research and the info. Other than that, on writing skill - I feel that there's potential, but you could probably do better.
Now don't get all defensive and retaliatory. Honest opinion.
Ummm...but I think thats how I work about my way....humour, peppered with good info and vice versa. Some times the humour might get lame, coz my poetic proclivities bend me towards that :)
Have you gone through other posts of mine...would be happy to receive some more stick.
Could you suggest me the best NGOs and Companies for doing internship ?
P S: Preferably at Pune and Kochi ?
wag tail, impress him, ask questions, leave last, come first. waging tail in front of boss is not how u impress him. its rather how u lick his/her ass.
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