Subramanian, who graduated from NLSIU Bangalore in 2001, has worked in-house at ITC and as a senior associate at Economic Laws Practice until 2007 before joining BG Exploration and Production India – the local subsidiary of the UK gas major BG.
On Friday she joined Advaya as a partner and would focus on scaling up the infrastructure, energy and natural resources practice of the start-up firm.
“I like Advaya because it is a very small team and open to ideas,” Subramanian said. “My own take on established law firms is, their structures are very firm and the ways they do business are almost cast in stone – very partner-led and very little space for doing your creative bit.”
“[Advaya] is a small firm but it has visions in growing,” she added. “We’re trying to attach ourselves to a niche space with a very focused set of skills. We do understand the challenges of being a small firm but the strength we will have going forward is having client perspective on board – that’s primarily a differentiator I bring on the table presently: I know what they [clients] are missing.”
She explained that established Indian law firms mostly focused on the M&A, investment or financing side, but not many were doing the bulk of project contracts, or engineering, procurement and construction (EPC) contracts or regulatory work.
At BG therefore, she never outsourced such work to law firms, said Subramanian, perhaps because domestic law firms just hadn’t developed that kind of expertise yet unlike abroad.
Vaidyanathan commented: “For us it’s important because typically you would not find these big multinational in-house counsel moving out to join start-ups, so I think it’s quite exciting. We are now in that stage where we are going to expand in a big way and get some more activity in the market.”
He said that he was “quite confident” that Advaya would open an office in Pune, followed by Delhi in the next seven months. Pune was attractive because a lot of the firm’s German clients were based there.
Advaya was also looking for new Mumbai headquarters, after having grown to three partners and 10 associates, explained Vaidyanathan, with Meenakshi Iyer having joined two years ago as the litigation partner, although corporate partner Ashish Bhakta, who had joined from ARA Law in 2011, left to join a law firm in the UK.
Vaidyanathan said that the partners had “assured contractual commitments” that Advaya would be converted into a full equity partnership in future.
Vaidyanathan said that infrastructure work now contributed around 20 per cent of the firm’s revenue, as did intellectual property, information technology and ecommerce. Corporate and commercial, and aviation work also made up approximately one fifth each, while media-law related work brought in around 5 per cent of revenues.
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As for the assured contractual commitments or whatever it is.. again a joke.. cause these sole guys never cease even a bit of control. Its a Firm as shown always, but in reality its fully controlled. Take the biggest to the smallest Law firms. Sorry to be cyncial. All the Best Smriti and Advaya.
Each of these have their own USPs, strategies, sector focus, geographies, etc.
I think all of the ones you mention have something unique about them and seem to be surviving, and in some cases growing rather rapidly.
Whether any of them have the potential to become the next AZB is a different story.
See here for some more start-up coverage to provide some more perspective:
www.legallyindia.com/tag/start-up-law-firms
www.legallyindia.com/201208133008/Analysis/asking-clients-can-small-legal-start-ups-compete-with-the-big-boys-and-do-you-have-to-risk-your-neck
Best to give firms that seem interesting a go, I reckon, and see how you like them?
Best regards
Kian
All the best to Smriti, though.
duuuuuude
Companies like BG do have very sophisticated standard form contracts vettted by foreign firms (which are compliant with ICE and other international standards). But that doesn't mean the EPC sector in India work on that basis alone. One only has to take a look at some of the EPC contracts floating around to realise this. Agree, they are often badly drafted, but that is because the stronger party (often the government or a PSU) appoints lawyers who lack the expertise but charge less.
@ Confused Zeus: You are really confused, aren't you? Or a Mumbai lawyer? To say that only AZB has such capabilities is ...
At BG therefore, she never outsourced such work to law firms, said Subramanian, perhaps because domestic law firms just hadn’t developed that kind of expertise yet unlike abroad."
Dont these supposedly smart people realise that what they say will be reported and ready by lawyers. and made fun of if it is BS just like the last second paragraph in the abovementioned quote!
No law firm is well equipped so she did it herself. LOL.
She's absolutely right, compared to foreign firms, most Indian firms don't like doing this kind of stuff and don't have the practical industry expertise.
You need to have worked with or at an energy company at least to be able to understand EPC work.
Name one Indian infrastructure partner who has expertise like that at one of the major firms, and actually does that kind of work regularly (and well without charging an arm and a leg).
i rest my case.
"You need to have worked with or at an energy company at least to be able to understand EPC work." – It is RIDICULOUS to say that one needs to have worked at an energy company to be capable of drafting/advising on EPC contracts!! Firstly, EPC contracts are not necessarily about pipelines or drilling platforms i.e. about the “energy” sector. Secondly, its not like the leading lawyers in other practice areas have previously worked in their sector of expertise e.g. not all TMT lawyers have worked in the tech sector. Thirdly, this applies to foreign lawyers as well i.e. a leading healthcare M&A lawyer need not have worked in-house in the healthcare sector. Lawyers learn useful things about clients' businesses / industry sectors while practising as a lawyer. One does not have to work in-house to gain an understanding, although that may be useful.
PEACE.
www.legallyindia.com/201208083001/Law-firms/jsa-powers-up-energy-with-brit-ong-counsel-nitin-banerjee-as-partner
If that's the only one you can name who regularly does EPC type work in natural resources sector then that actually backs up my case (and Ms Subramaniam's). Happy to be proven wrong but Google does not give any answers.
And, ok, I accept that maybe you don't HAVE to have worked in-house, but it's hard to get that experience in other ways. Chicken and egg. If you don't know how EPC works, company won't instruct you. If they don't instruct you, how do you learn about EPC?
Peace and case rests, again.
Clients dont instruct you so that you can learn off their transaction (and also bill them for it)!!
L Viswanathan at Amarchand- he charges an arm and a leg, but he bloody well deserves to
Prashanth Sabeshan- at Majmudar now ... hands on the best oil&gas lawyer in the country....
Indian firms have worked extensively on EPC contracts, in power from the 1990s and in oil & gas most recently...
I know at least 2 other very component EPC lawyers...
Don't believe any self-promotional crap everyones comes up with...
JSA also does a lot of EPC work and apologies, I do not know the name of the Partner but do know a few senior associates who do that work and are really good at it.
Bashless sweeping statements do not work my friend. Especially as a lawyer, where it is required of you to be to the point, precise and correct on facts.
You don’t give up, do you? You asked for a name and got one - now you want a list! See Scooter's response. Also, when did I say Nitin is the only expert? My stand is that India has many EPC lawyers. You can’t expect all of them to have in-house tags ’coz lawyers usually move the other way i.e. law firm to in-house. Just so that you know, EPC contracts are quite standard form and model documents for every type of EPC contract are easily available. Please don’t think Ms. S is the only Einstein who can draft EPC contracts (using BG templates) and insult yourself. Today, clients approach leading EPC lawyers. Tomorrow, associates of those lawyers become the leading lawyers. Its not really chicken and egg. Your case rests – IN ITS GRAVE. You would not have made the silly submissions if you were a decent lawyer!
@ scooter - thanks! the anon fellow is a moron. doesn't realise we are trying to throw him/her some light.
And maybe the way I put it before was a bit too strong. But I guess the point I (and probably S) are making is that compared to the normal infra, projects and energy lawyers, there are fewer who do EPC work regularly? And almost none who do it cheaply?
Do correct me if I'm wrong (civilly), happy to learn.
I will tell you this and sign off from this meaningless discussion with you.
Your problem is that you can’t admit defeat (I have also said this before) and you pass baseless, insulting, defamatory remarks of sweeping nature about the incapability of other professionals, thus indicating a tendency to display absolute disrespect for others and a willingness to defame people. When you are given proof to the contrary, you can’t even manage to say you were wrong/apologize. What do you mean by “I can admit that I may have been wrong” – why not simply say “sorry, I admit that I was wrong”. To make it worse, when you say “if these guys really do a lot of EPC” you are (a) being uncivil (at least by your standards) by doubting other people on this thread who have, unlike you, backed their comments with facts and (b) you have done so without even bothering to find out whether the “if” and “really” are applicable to the names cited by others in support of their ACCURATE assertions/comments. After all this, you have the b@!!$ to think people are getting personal (when in fact it is you who defamed the whole legal community)! What did you expect? A 21-gun salute and a medal of honour?
People learn law in many ways (not just by working in-house) – it would do you a world of good if you acquired some basic legal skills yourself. If you are a first or second year law student, then this would hopefully have been a good opportunity to learn the importance of backing assertions with research (and how-not-to build your case). If you are anything else, you deserve all the bashing and a title of [...]
And what is the obsession with cheap lawyering? You can't buy specialists for peanuts in any jurisdiction.
L. Vichu though is a star and has a decade's head start on Santosh. So it would again be unfair putting them in the same bracket.
I am very surprised that no one has mentioned the absolute No.1 in this field - Piyush Joshi from Clarus. But then, you must all be kids.
I know Santosh. He is many things and from his impressive track record at AMSS I can say he is certainly a stud (literally) but EPC contracts is not his forte. In fact he has very little to do with infrastructure for that matter. He is cyril's backup to Vishwanathan and has some regulatory experience but EPC?? Not really.
Dont know how well you know him. But he has far more experience with EPC than on the regulatory side.
"....'read' by lawyers and made fun of if its is....."
Vichu and Santosh are (very good) financing lawyers more than they are EPC-type lawyers. Jatin Aneja also does this sort of work, but he does other stuff as well, so not sure how highly specialised he is.
Projects lawyers do EPC as and when they get such mandates. Globally, few lawyers would do only EPC.
Kian, i dont think that the comments are relevant to the topic
Further, EPC contracts have a lot of tax issues and no in-house counsel takes call on tax matters and would invariably look to tax practitioners to advise on VAT/service tax.
Further, there are FIDIC books (silver, etc.) which lays out formats for EPC contracts, which are globally used as templates.
And, without taking anything away from Ms. Smriti, BG has used external counsel in the past to advise them on EPC matters. But, being an in-house lawyer for BG, she is in the best position to confirm.
Many law students and litigators visit this forum and they won't be conned about the corporate law scene by people making incorrect statements. Don't see what's your itch. Are you working at Advaya or acting as the PRO of the EPC lawyers named?
My primary objection is to someone coming out and saying there are no lawyers with EPC experience in the Indian markets, and then a bunch of fools saying, Vish is more financing than EPC...
The fact remains that there are rarely pure "EPC" transactions, or a lawyer being engaged only for EPC work (except, increasingly, in real estate projects). Typically the developer's counsel will do most of the work, including EPC, as a part of their mandate. So its stupid to say that a company will engage X firm for their other project work and Y for EPC. Similarly stupid to say that Vish will do only EPC work and not financing...
Dil pe mat le yaar...
I want to join a firm which is associate-led...or even better, intern-led
LI should start moderating comments more strictly. come on, not a single congratulatory or "all the best" comment. people here are just taking out frustrations, trying to put the person who is covered, with their comments. And this is a growing trend on this forum.
Perhaps LI will be more sensible to moderate comments, for LI's own good, else people will stop giving interviews to LI, given all these negativity.
Congrats Smriti... and all the very best at Advaya !!
someone will jump saying Indian lawyers dont even know what EPC is!! Kian censor his comment to save Indian lawyers reputation! Its all in your hands Kian!
1. Anyone who has practised commercial law for a few years would know that there is no such thing as a dedicated 'EPC' practice or 'EPC' firm. The knowledge base for drafting an EPC (Engineering-Procurement-Construction) contract is general ability to draft contracts, some precedents and lots of general experience. Experienced lawyers of all hues - whether finance or projects, general corporate, real estate and M&A - draft these babies and as an insider I can tell you that they dont involve a great deal of skill nor are they themselves the subject matter of a deal.
2. Typically the vast bulk of EPC contracts are very standard (as with financing agreements) and outside counsel are not involved. The few that are critical invariably are drafted by the biggies such as Amarchand or AZB. There are very very few such assignments at these firms in a year so no one can sit on his ass and be called an EPC lawyer.
3. To build on what i said above, in-house counsel at places like BG typically do the nuts and bolts of the standardised EPC contracts. This means looking to see if company resolutions, articles are ok, rather than actually drafting the contracts.
4. The profile of being an in-house counsel is pretty pretty sidey anywhere in the world, more so in India where they are treated (and paid) like dirt. Within the in-house counsel pecking order, finance and PE firms top and places like BG / HUL are at the bottom. Little wonder BG got a lawyer from an equally sidey firm like ELP. No self-respecting lawyer at the big firms would touch a job like this with a barge pole. [...]
5. Lastly BG India has very little to do with EPC. It has a very small footprint in the country, and is not a provider of EPC services. There's very little experience to be gained there apart from being a parking lot for 3rd class lawyers.
[...]
"parking lot for 3rd class lawyers". Great comment. I will use it next time I meet an in-house counsel. But then, they are the ones who law firm lawyers depend on for work. Did that thought ever strike you?
bisleri draws water from Ganga. Which one is cleaner?
I mostly agree, top tier firms boast a few horrible lawyers. But top tier law firms have on average better lawyers than top tier companies (at least in India). In my time at law school and nearly all succeeding batches most of the folks who got into companies as in-house counsel or ended up there did it for lack of options. Guys like Pramod, etc. who became legal heads at companies are simply no match for Umakanth or Vishwanathan at Amarchand. Smriti may be an exception, she may not be, bur I suspect if she had the straight A route to an amarchand partnership she would have opted for that long ago.
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