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× Discussion related to Legally India's Mooting Premier League.

ELSA-WTO: good enough for MPL2?

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9 years 1 month ago - 9 years 1 month ago #1 by sanjay.khan.nagra
Hello everyone!

We have been receiving a lot of suggestions lately in respect of the MPL2 structure, the moots included, the tier system and the scoring criteria.

One such suggestion, which I believe must be addressed before others, is that ELSA-WTO Moot should not be a part of MPL2 at all, as only 2-3 Indian teams participate in it.

We would love to have as many opinions as possible. Please post your views/comment/suggestions.

Sanjay Khan
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9 years 1 month ago #2 by mootboy
Replied by mootboy on topic ELSA-WTO: good enough for MPL2?
ppl who want it removed are idiots. it is a very prestigious moot. fact that "only" 2-3 indian teams participate means it is not a crap moot. there are many indian moots that should be removed from MPL such as those sponsored by surana.
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9 years 1 month ago #3 by Simba
What?? :O :O
Remove ELSA WTO from the list!!.Have u any idea how much hard work and research goes into that moot? The moot problem comes out in around Oct And the moot takes place sometime in march.Its 5 months of hardwork and painstaking research.
And winning this moot is as tough as it can get.They have some of the most prestigious Judges (Panelist is the correct term though)
And the fact that only few Indian teams participate does not take away anything away from the fact that its a moot of a very high quality and winners should be featured in MPL.


P.S -Written by a former ELSA WTO semi -finalist :D :D
The following user(s) said Thank You: kianganz
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9 years 1 month ago - 9 years 1 month ago #4 by kianganz
This is a reposting from the news story:

I am an ardent MPL Fan and a law student from one of the prestigious law schools in the country.

Mooting Premier League was started by Legally India and it ranks INDIAN law colleges based on their performance in Moot Court Competitions.

What is the point on including Elitist Moot Court Competitions like ELSA when only TWO Indian teams participated in it last year?

I totally agree that the ELSA Moot is one of the best in terms of quality, organization and competitiveness. BUT, is this not unfair to other law colleges in the country who do not participate in ELSA? Many such International Moots do not see participation from Indian teams because of extremely high expenditure involved in these Moots (People spend up to Rs. 3 Lakh)

I feel that the MPL Organizers (Kian, Sanjay and Prashanth,are you listening?) should have a benchmark of minimum Indian Participation in a Moot, to include that Moot in the MPL 2 List. There should be a minimum number of Indian Teams (five or ten) that should participate in a particular Moot for it to be included in the MPL.

Apart from ELSA, the following Moot Court Competitions should also be chucked out from the MPL 2 List because of low Indian participation:

* Frankfurt International Arbitration Moot, Germany- 3 Indian Teams participated last year
* ICC Mediation Moot, Paris - 4 Indian Teams participated last year
* Maritime International Arbitration Moot, Sydney- 2 Indian Teams participated last year
* Oxford IPR Moot - 2/3 Indian Teams

Therefore, I believe that only those Moots (both national and international) which see participation from a substantial number of Indian Teams (this number, according to me could be five) should be included in the second season of the MPL.

Cheers!

Fake MPL Player


--
Kian Ganz, Publishing editor, LegallyIndia.com
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9 years 1 month ago #5 by Simba
Hmmm....I agree with Fake MPL's view that there should be a criteria regarding minimum no. of teams participating in the International Moot to include it in MPL.And if Elsa is going to face the axe then the other moots which Fake Mpl has mentioned should be removed too as they two have low participation of Indian teams.
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9 years 1 month ago #6 by kianganz
Thanks for the reply Simba, that makes sense.

We are considering maybe creating a side-tier pool for the really tough and prestigious int'l competitions that not a lot of Indian teams participate in.

Winning them should still be recognised but we could reduce the points of these dramatically.

Either we could just give them low points for winning, or make the number of points dependent on the participation this year, or maybe even put them in Tier 4 or so for pointage, if that is roughly equivalent?

Kian

--
Kian Ganz, Publishing editor, LegallyIndia.com
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9 years 1 month ago #7 by sagnik
the MPL list is well researched and comprehensive. if any alteration is to be done, you should add more moots and not delete any. Going by fake MPL Player's logic, all international moots which don't have an Indian round, should be excluded from the list. why should ELSA alone be given the step motherly treatment? VIS EASt, VIS WEST, ICC HAGUE,etc all should be chucked out as people spend a substantial amount to participate in these. Ofcourse, the monetery sacrifice is immense, but so is the stake attached. These are of international reputation and a good performance in such moots puts the college in the global platform. Similar is the effort and skill that are to be deployed for a decent performance in these moots and you are to compete with the best teams from around the world. Dreams are involved with these moots because the difficulty level and the stakes attached to them are inexplicable. With no disrespect to the national moots, these are the ones a law student dreams of winning.

And someone complained about the Surana moots. Well, ALL moots have been the subject of various complaints. Even the BCI moot has not been emancipated of such 'spot fixing' scams. But such baseless allegations don't change much. It is the nature of the cynical human to question, at times in futility. The Surana Moots are one of the best organized moots in the country, it is a shame to point fingers at them.
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9 years 1 month ago #8 by Simba
Ya the prestige factor regarding international moots is there. However we should also keep in mind not all Indian law schools send their teams to Vis, Elsa, ICC, Maritime etc. because of the cost factor involved I suppose.
But however I would like to see the wining Colleges being featured in MPL and given due recognition for their achievement in these prestigious moots.

I like Kian's suggestion of creating a separate Tier for such moots.How do u propose to go about allocating points in this tier?
The following user(s) said Thank You: kianganz
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9 years 1 month ago #9 by Fake MPL Player
Replied by Fake MPL Player on topic ELSA-WTO: good enough for MPL2?
Hello again,

Thanks Simba for agreeing with my view. Lets roar together!

Kian, glad to know that you are brainstorming and working on my suggestions. Thanks for trusting the Fake MPL Player.

Sagnik-

Boy, you got me a little wrong. Vis Hong Kong and Vis Vienna see participation from at least 10 Indian teams each year. The Moots have rigorous competition and see participation from teams all across the globe. Vis should be retained.

ICC Trial Moot has a selection process where two teams from India are selected to participate in the Moot based on their performance in a written assignment. Last year, more than 8 teams submitted the assignments. Thus, there is substantial participation from Indian Teams. Also, the Moot sees participation from the Best of other regions (There are similar selection processes based across the world) and the quality of judging and the competition is good. ICC Trial Moot should be retained.

The benchmark should not be the amount of money that students spend to participate in an international moot court competition. The benchmark should be the number of indian teams in the moot court competition.

My earlier point was that Moots like Elsa, Frankfurt, Oxford IPR, Maritime Arbitration, et al see participation from 2/3 (less than five) Indian teams, which is why those moots should be thrown out of MPL 2.

I second your opinion on Surana Moots.

Cheers,
Fake MPL Player
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9 years 1 month ago #10 by kartikeymahajan
Hey

I agree to the fact that ELSA and other moots are highly prestigious. Achieving something in these moots goes a long way in displaying a person's mooting skills. However, for the purposes of MPL, which is a competition amongst Indian Law Schools, we should try and create a level playing field. For this purpose we should restrict ourselves to those moots in which atleast 5 Indian teams participate.
Further, with respect to ELSA, Maritime, Oxford Moots, ICC Mediation, we should try and create a separate Tier altogether which has less of points weightage then the other International Moots placed in Tier 1 & 2.
The following user(s) said Thank You: kianganz
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9 years 1 month ago #11 by kianganz
Thanks Kartikey, fully agree and that seems pretty much in line with the latest changes we made in version 2.02 of the MPL Rules.

www.legallyindia.com/201009121297/Mootin...-to-win-henry-dunant

Please do let us know your feedback.

--
Kian Ganz, Publishing editor, LegallyIndia.com
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9 years 1 month ago #12 by Mooting Alumni
Replied by Mooting Alumni on topic ELSA-WTO: good enough for MPL2?
This comment deals not just with ELSA WTO but with the format of tiers in internationa moots generally.

I think the only difference b/w international moots should be whether the have a national qualifing rounds and whether they do not have a national qualifing rounds. (btw i would not consider submitting of assignments as a part of ICC trial moot as fulfilling the requirement of a natioanl qualifing rounds what i mean instead is having oral moot court rounds for the purpose of qualifiction. Apart from that there can be little difference between two teams that win an internationa round of a competition.this i think can be the only subjective diffrentiation b/w tiers of international law moots.

There can be no difference b/w a team that wins 'vis' or one that wins WTO. though one might be more prestigious then the other. But on merits it would be unfair to differentiate betwen a winner of either of the two competition.

Also how can a team that wins WTO get less points than one that wins jessup National, or Stetson national. An internatioanl round i think is qualitatively different from any national round. (btw this i say with the experience of having won the jessup national rounds :P )

PS. I think the problem with the present format is that the moots are placed in tiers largely based on which moot is more prestigious. Though from the outside it easy to distinguish between moots as being more or less prestigioud. But when you are allocating points to a team based on thier performance in a moot. It would be unfair to give one more points than d other. The difference from the inside in the level of the competion is almost negligible.

Accordingly Elsa should be there.But in tier 2 and not in tier 5 as at present.
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9 years 1 month ago #13 by Fake MPL Player
Replied by Fake MPL Player on topic ELSA-WTO: good enough for MPL2?
Hello again,

@Kartikeymahajan- Thanks for agreeing with me!

@Kian- The second version is much better than the first one. Good going!

@Mooting Alumni- You did not get the point at all. Mooting Premier League is a platform where the performance of 'Indian' law schools is analyzed.
I know for a fact that last year, only NUJS Kolkata, NLU Jodhpur and GNLU Gandhinagar participated in the ELSA Asian Qualifiers. The main reason why many Indian teams don't participate is because the Moot is extremely costly. People spend up to 3 lakhs for this Moot. If only three teams participate in a Moot, what is the point of putting it in a higher tier. I clearly remember that NUJS came high up the rank list last season only because of this Moot. This was pretty unfair, considering their prominent opponents NLS Bangalore and Nalsar did not participate in Elsa at all. In fact, it is good that ELSA is placed in Tier 4/5 right now. Instead of chucking it out of the MPL, they have kept it in the lower tiers so that people know about the Moot and any Indian achievement in the Moot can thus be acknowledged. So, effectively, winning Jessup National Rounds will fetch you more points than winning ELSA WTO only because around 20 indian teams participate in the National Rounds (Both North and South each) whereas only three indian teams participate in ELSA WTO.

There is a difference between a team that wins VIS and one that wins ELSA WTO because more than 10 teams participate in Vis Vienna and Vis Hong Kong every year and only three teams participate in ELSA WTO.

More statistics:
Vis Vienna- Out of 251 teams, 15 Indian teams participated last year
Vis Hong Kong- Out of around 80-90 teams, 12 Indian teams participated last year
ELSA Asian Qualifiers- Out of 16 teams, 3 Indian teams participated last year

Indian participation has to be the top factor while placing moots in different tiers. Otherwise, MPL will have no meaning at all.

Cheers,
Fake MPL Player
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7 years 3 months ago #14 by NLU -Dite
Replied by NLU -Dite on topic ELSA-WTO: good enough for MPL2?
Sorry but this time in Oxford IP Moot many teams participated but only 3 got selected.

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