Amba Kak, Rhodes Scholar and NUJS 2013 Batch Graduate, has now been appointed at the US FTC as a senior consultant on AI. p.s. This post is not meant to stoke inter-NLU rivalry or NLU/non-NLU debate or anything like that. Just a good piece of news that can encourage Indian law grads to pursue non-conventional line of work maybe. Feel free to troll/downvote though, since I won't be visiting this thread again.
Okay, this is genuinely a great milestone for NUJS. Not an NUJS graduate myself (my NLU alma mater would probably be tier 57 as per LI rankings), but I feel genuinely happy for NUJS and for this outstanding woman. She must have worked so hard and had the perseverance to execute her dreams. One can only aspire to be like her!
It's a big achievement and congratulations to her, but wouldn't OP agree that the percentage of NUJS toppers in CAM/SAM-type law firms is higher compared to NLSIU toppers? That more NLSIU toppers prefer Magic Circle firms, opening their own law firms, Supreme Court/High Court court advocacy, UPSC, academia, think tanks etc? People have attributed this to higher fees at NUJS and student loans, but surely not everyone is on a loan?
I think NUJS is 20 years old. If we compare with NLSIU in 2008, by then Trilegal (founded by 3 NLSIU alumni) was already 8 years old and had made a big splash. ALF (founded by Lawrence Liang had Arvind Narrain) was also 8 years old and made a name. Aditya Sondhi was being regarded as a future star. Many more examples.
I think the difference is that NLSIU alumni have tended to be more risk takers compared with NUJS alumni. I think this could also be related to faculty. If you have faculty who inspire and motivate you to think out of the box, this may translate into thinking out of the box in career choices too. By "faculty" I am including alumni guest lecturers and other guest lecturers.
This is not a criticism, but an invitation to constructive debate!
Take it somewhere else. When you 'invite' law school comparisons in a thread completely unrelated to it, and one that's meant to celebrate/highlight individual achievement, you are trolling. Maybe you should have been taught that in your law school.
Not really. Any comparison between the two places needs to be done in the present day and age, not comparing the past. The first 20 years of NLSIU had it reign supreme without virtually any competitor with NALSAR, NLIU Bhopal and NUJS barely having 1-2 graduating batches. The first 20 years of NUJS saw the emergence of 20 other NLUs as competition. Compare the last 10 years and you will find out that the graduate outcomes of the two places aren't really that different. There are as many if not more NUJS students working in policy bodies and think tanks and academia, as well as start ups and litigation, as NLSIU students now. However, it is true that the achievements of the former aren't institutionally highlighted and hence often remain unknown, unlike that of the latter. If you are doing objective comparisons, then use contemporary data and stats, not compare two different timelines and context.
The success of any law firm or any policy body cannot really be attributed to their founders only. Trilegal, Vidhi etc. have become what they are today based on the efforts of all the people involved from various law schools, and not only the founders. Litigation is a different thing and there the NLSIU grads have enjoyed greater success so far. However, let's see how the current gen is doing compared to their contemporaries.
Why is what NLSIU grads have done at all relevant to this thread? In addition, you should read the post more carefully. You are 'inviting' a person to a 'constructive debate', despite them having mentioned clearly that they aren't going to return to this thread.
It looks like trolls from NLSIU want homage to be paid to their institution before every thread, regardless of the content. It's like doing Ganesh Puja before every other puja. Only that satisfies their inflated ego, helps them feel as if their pedigree is still relevant, and makes them forget for a while that currently their graduates are more or less indistinguishable from those from other good institutions.
Arghya Sengupta (@Arghya_justify) Tweeted: When Indian lawyers who have won scholarships promising to change India are thrilled to announce their jobs with foreign governments, I wonder how long we have to go before we can really get rid of our colonial hangover. Answer: very, very long. https://twitter.com/Arghya_justify/status/1462145019171590145
Distinctly remember a student from The Law School who won a scholarship for BCL in Oxford (not Rhodes) write in their interview about why aspire for higher legal education from Oxford and that with the experience of the Oxford, they would be returing to India to litigate. All that socially conscious thing...sheesh. Well, the said student, after returning from Oxford, joined CAM. See, nobody has problems with people working abroad after winning scholarship from India. It's all that lofty ideas they talk about working for society, for the cause of unprivileged blah blah that seems fake when they join a corporate.
Why should someone planning to litigate in India be given a scholarship for a foreign LLM anyway? Litigation here doesn't require an LLM, much less a foreign LLM that teaches nothing about Indian law.
That's alright. NLSIU alum are always springing to criticise others instead of their own. Why doesn't he start with analysing the career choices of the 25 Rhodes scholar winners from his own alma? In addition, aren't Indian authorities the first to reward people seeking foreign employment by trying to hire people with foreign work experience to key Indian positions? Assuming this is about Amba, she has worked here for 7 years after her Masters. If there are not good enough opportunities in her field that the Indian government is willing to offer, then should she resort to mediocrity for the rest of her life? What pathbreaking work is taking place here involving AI and Law anyway? A Supreme Court subcommittee that confuses digitization with use of AI half of the time? Or the pieces that Vidhi comes up with on AI and Justice that are vague as anything, mostly regurgitate foreign research, and indicate no practical research based solution other than platitudes and generic recommendations for way forward?
LOL Most of them talk about their hopes of changing India in SoPs to get brownie points and since the questionnaires and SoPs ask 'how would you contribute to the society after completing your studies with the xyz scholarship'. Imagine writing 'I aspire to work in a tier 1 law firm of India which, unlike US firms, does not engage in pro bono, and to aid rich men get richer'. Hollow talks.
When Indian lawyers who have won scholarships promising to change India are thrilled to announce their jobs with foreign governments, I wonder how long we have to go before we can really get rid of our colonial hangover. Answer: very, very long.
I am shocked that Arghya Sengupta took such a cheapshot. Very obviously intended at dissing Amba. Either resentment by an NLSIU Rhodes alum against a non-NLSIU Rhodes alum, or these two have some history. Or even both. Either way it is unbecoming of Arghya to make such a comment. Do better.
Amba doesn't care about what Arghya tweets, so she won't respond. For that matter, other than anon trolls here, nobody cares about what that guy says or thinks anyway.
, nobody cares about what that guy says or thinks anyway.
Show some respect, buddy. He is one of the leading public intellectuals of the country and has single handedly founded one of the most prestigious think tanks in India. It is you who is a troll. I request R to please flag this disrespectful and ignorant comment.
Leading public intellectuals? How so exactly? Yes, he's founded a think tank, but he's not the only person who works for that think tank and not even the one who's best known for his work in it. So yes, what he says (in a completely out of bounds manner) about other people's career choice, especially stupid comments like this, is hardly going to earn him any respect.
Would Arghya Sengupta have the guts to condemn Amartya Sen, Kaushik Basu and Raghuram Rajan for working abroad after receiving prestigious scholarships to Oxbridge/Ivy Leagues? Or his fellow NLSIU Rhoadies from NLSIU teaching at Oxford? Also, will he like it if people start making certain criticisms of Vidhi? Live and let live, pal.
You guys missed Arghya's next tweet, which explains his REAL problem with Amba's appointment:
I’m sure the intentions of individuals are entirely noble. But should experience with foreign governments or firms be a qualification for lateral entry in india? That’s something we need to think about carefully. It’s given way more cred than it should and that is a deep bias.
I am appalled at Arghya's tweet. Many NLSIU Rhodes alum are based abroad. Some have also worked worked for the US government, like Sandeep Gopalan. Yet, he chooses to attack a Rhodes alum who is from another college and also a woman.
Also, how does he know that Amba won't return to India after a few years? Is his problem then that Amba may get a job with the Indian government, as his second tweet is hinting? What is the problem with that, exactly? Manmohan Singh worked with the World Bank, Raghuram Rajan was at Chicago... so many examples.
Is it that Arghya is jealous that he himself could not get an assignment like this abroad?
Another thread on LI had details of all the 25 NLSIU Rhodes scholars. Reproducing it below. I counted at least 12 out of 25, nearly half, working abroad. Yet not a word from Arghya criticising them. He instead picks out Amba and attacks her in public just a few days after she receives the bigger break in her career. Also a few days after NLSIU's fourth year in a row without a Rhodes scholar.
Aap chronology samjhiye.
1. Lavanya Rajamani, 1996: Now professor at Oxford 2. Sandeep Gopalan, 1997: Now Vice Chancellor of Piedmont International University, USA 3. Menaka Guruswamy, 1998: Now Senior Advocate in Delhi 4. Sudhir Krishnaswamy, 1998: Now VC of NLSIU (FYI the Jindal VC also won Rhodes the same year) 5. Thomas Sebastian, 1999: Now barrister in London 6. Sandeep Sreekumar, 1999: Now assistant professor of philosophy in Baruch College, New York 7. Dev Gangjee, 2000: Now professor at Oxford 8. Nandan Kamath, 2000: Now heading his own sports law practice in India 9. Rahul Rao, 2001: Now Reader in politics and international studies at SOAS 10. Sameer Singh, 2002: Went into consulting and entrepreneurship 11. Shyamkrishna Balganesh, 2003: Professor at UPenn 12. Prithviraj Datta, 2004: Visiting assistant professor, department of government, Franklin & Marshall College 13. Tarunabh Khaitan, 2004: Professor and Vice Dean at Oxford 14. Neha Jain, 2005: Associate Professor, University of Minnesota Law School 15. Ramya Raghuram, 2007: Managing Associate at Simmons & Simmons, London 16. Arghya Sengupta, 2008: Heading Vidhi 17. Sushila Rao, 2009: Associate, Davis Polk, New York 18. Niranjan V, 2010: Barrister at One Essex Court, London 19. Gautam Bhatia, 2011: Lawyer, author and blogger 20. Vrinda Bhandari, 2012: Practising in India 21. Anupama Kumar, 2013: Policy research in India 22. Raag Yadava, 2014: Teaching at NLSIU 23. Mansi Sood, 2015: Practising in India 24. Vanshaj Jain, 2017: Pursuing DPhil
Out of sheer curiosity, are any of the 2010s rhoadies (not just nls, but others like amba etc) married? This has NOTHING to do with their amazing careers and achievements, so please do not assume things and downvote this to oblivion!
This is obviously not meant to be a judgment on the personal lives of these people. Since I happen to know them (have interacted with them, or know others who are social media ‘friends’), I believe many of them aren’t married. That’s of course personal choice. I also believe their career trajectory may require them to be more mobile and not necessarily ‘be in one place’ (speculating). Clarifying again - this is just an answer to the requested question and NOT a value judgment
Why did Arghya tweet this out of the blue against Amba, who is his junior by many years? Is their some history or politics involved between the two?? What was the provocation?
Arghya has returned to India to serve the nation, as have other Law School Rhodes alumni like Sudhir or Menaka or Nandan. Even those based abroad are helping young Indian scholars, such as Tarunabh or Shyam. So Arghya is certainly entitled to criticise the girl from NUJS for working for the US government.
She's a woman, not a girl. It has been 8 years since she won the Rhodes, which is when you could print your headlines with 'NUJS girl's "Rhodes" to Oxford', which is still puerile. She's a woman.
By that logic, Amba has been working for the last 7 years for an organization the non profit open source work of which has been helping millions of people all over the world including thousands of Indians, so she can criticise almost every NLSIU Rhodes scholar for not doing that. As for NLSIU alum based abroad helping indian scholars, in what official capacity exactly? How do you or Arghya know that Amba won't be doing that too or hasn't already been doing that? What rubbish logic!
Serve the nation? He charges huge sums of money to provide a service to private and public bodies. It is neither charity nor public service that he's doing. In addition, his organization's impact is only limited. What Amba will be doing will actually have implications all over the globe and also closer to cutting edge tech developments. This seems nothing other than jealousy on Arghya's part.
Unless someone actually quits an equivalent or greater position abroad to come back to India, they are not really doing the country any favour but only to themselves.
if you look at the public profile of any rhodes scholar from india working outside india they rarely mention their undergraduate college, while the other people in their position and in their institutions would mostly mention their undergrad colleges
you make your own assumption as to the reason why indians abroad do not want to mention their undergrad unis
you read some of the profiles and it seems as if their career started magically from oxford
Haha, yeah, noticed this. Especially if they happen to come from a so-called non-elite UG college. Colonial hangover? A desire to be seen by other firangs as one of their own? To signal having a silver spoon? It's quite sad actually. Never lose the sight of your roots. Adrift in the chilled London air, who knows why people do what they do...
Why are people talking about Arghya and NLSIU in this thread at all? NLSIU people can take their megalomania to the 100 other threads exclusively created for that.
I don't why Amba's friends/fans are hating on Arghya so much. He has the freedom of speech to criticise her and has made a point that cannot be factually disputed.
So when Arghya says something, then it's 'criticism'. When others say something in reply, it is 'hate'. slow clap Please go read the Vidhi research output about FoSE to learn that it works both ways.
Just saw this and had a nice laugh. Arghya is among the top 5 policy analysts in Asia today and possibly among the top 25-30 globally. He has better things to do than be jealous of someone who's so much younger and less experienced. His comment was meant in a very general sense at people who write insincere SOPs, much like the fake Miss India contestants who promise to fight for world peace only to join Bollywood. Maybe Amba triggered the comment but she was not the sole target. Also, Amba must take it in the right spirit. The fact is that she too must have made an SOP like that. Arghya walks the talk.
Amba Kak, Rhodes Scholar and NUJS 2013 Batch Graduate, has now been appointed at the US FTC as a senior consultant on AI.
p.s. This post is not meant to stoke inter-NLU rivalry or NLU/non-NLU debate or anything like that. Just a good piece of news that can encourage Indian law grads to pursue non-conventional line of work maybe. Feel free to troll/downvote though, since I won't be visiting this thread again.
Hats off, congratulations guys and gals!
I think NUJS is 20 years old. If we compare with NLSIU in 2008, by then Trilegal (founded by 3 NLSIU alumni) was already 8 years old and had made a big splash. ALF (founded by Lawrence Liang had Arvind Narrain) was also 8 years old and made a name. Aditya Sondhi was being regarded as a future star. Many more examples.
I think the difference is that NLSIU alumni have tended to be more risk takers compared with NUJS alumni. I think this could also be related to faculty. If you have faculty who inspire and motivate you to think out of the box, this may translate into thinking out of the box in career choices too. By "faculty" I am including alumni guest lecturers and other guest lecturers.
This is not a criticism, but an invitation to constructive debate!
When Indian lawyers who have won scholarships promising to change India are thrilled to announce their jobs with foreign governments, I wonder how long we have to go before we can really get rid of our colonial hangover.
Answer: very, very long. https://twitter.com/Arghya_justify/status/1462145019171590145
See, nobody has problems with people working abroad after winning scholarship from India. It's all that lofty ideas they talk about working for society, for the cause of unprivileged blah blah that seems fake when they join a corporate.
Most of them talk about their hopes of changing India in SoPs to get brownie points and since the questionnaires and SoPs ask 'how would you contribute to the society after completing your studies with the xyz scholarship'.
Imagine writing 'I aspire to work in a tier 1 law firm of India which, unlike US firms, does not engage in pro bono, and to aid rich men get richer'.
Hollow talks.
https://twitter.com/Arghya_justify/status/1462145019171590145
Timing of the tweet leads one to think if its a direct jab on this.
I’m sure the intentions of individuals are entirely noble. But should experience with foreign governments or firms be a qualification for lateral entry in india? That’s something we need to think about carefully. It’s given way more cred than it should and that is a deep bias.
https://twitter.com/Arghya_justify/status/1462436362833989636
Translation: Why doesn't Modi appoint me as an advisor to the government?
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Also, how does he know that Amba won't return to India after a few years? Is his problem then that Amba may get a job with the Indian government, as his second tweet is hinting? What is the problem with that, exactly? Manmohan Singh worked with the World Bank, Raghuram Rajan was at Chicago... so many examples.
Is it that Arghya is jealous that he himself could not get an assignment like this abroad?
Aap chronology samjhiye.
1. Lavanya Rajamani, 1996: Now professor at Oxford
2. Sandeep Gopalan, 1997: Now Vice Chancellor of Piedmont International University, USA
3. Menaka Guruswamy, 1998: Now Senior Advocate in Delhi
4. Sudhir Krishnaswamy, 1998: Now VC of NLSIU (FYI the Jindal VC also won Rhodes the same year)
5. Thomas Sebastian, 1999: Now barrister in London
6. Sandeep Sreekumar, 1999: Now assistant professor of philosophy in Baruch College, New York
7. Dev Gangjee, 2000: Now professor at Oxford
8. Nandan Kamath, 2000: Now heading his own sports law practice in India
9. Rahul Rao, 2001: Now Reader in politics and international studies at SOAS
10. Sameer Singh, 2002: Went into consulting and entrepreneurship
11. Shyamkrishna Balganesh, 2003: Professor at UPenn
12. Prithviraj Datta, 2004: Visiting assistant professor, department of government, Franklin & Marshall College
13. Tarunabh Khaitan, 2004: Professor and Vice Dean at Oxford
14. Neha Jain, 2005: Associate Professor, University of Minnesota Law School
15. Ramya Raghuram, 2007: Managing Associate at Simmons & Simmons, London
16. Arghya Sengupta, 2008: Heading Vidhi
17. Sushila Rao, 2009: Associate, Davis Polk, New York
18. Niranjan V, 2010: Barrister at One Essex Court, London
19. Gautam Bhatia, 2011: Lawyer, author and blogger
20. Vrinda Bhandari, 2012: Practising in India
21. Anupama Kumar, 2013: Policy research in India
22. Raag Yadava, 2014: Teaching at NLSIU
23. Mansi Sood, 2015: Practising in India
24. Vanshaj Jain, 2017: Pursuing DPhil
This has NOTHING to do with their amazing careers and achievements, so please do not assume things and downvote this to oblivion!
you make your own assumption as to the reason why indians abroad do not want to mention their undergrad unis
you read some of the profiles and it seems as if their career started magically from oxford