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This is being partly discussed in the PDA thread, but I think we need to have a separate, serious conversation on this with all trollish and joke comments banned. The comment in the PDA thread about senior boys "rating" junior girls is 100% true and it happens at all law schools, even NLSIU. It is high time we address this in a few ways.

#1. The practise of "rating" junior girls by looks and bodies needs to be classified as sexual harassment. Full stop. Even if it is done in the absence of the girl. Any student who does this must be suspended for a year and debarred from internships. A repeat offence should lead to expulsion.

# 2. Let's stop using the word "couples" when senior boys stalk junior girls. Let us not normalise misogyny. What is happening is nothing but predatory behaviour, gaslighting and harassment. Basically, senior boys go up to junior girls and promise to help them with studies, internships, moots etc. They initially act like friends, then start coercing them into a position where the girl feels pressured to say yes. There have been cases where physical violence has been used. Meanwhile, the senior boy boasts that they are a "couple". If the girl denies it, she can face all sorts of social disapproval or be branded as a "sl*t".

#3. A compulsory counselling session must take place for all junior girls and they must be warned about predatory seniors.

#4. Another issue is this: why do girls have to be dependant on senior boys to help with studies and internships in the first place?? There must be better support systems and a buddy system where senior girls help junior girls.
1. I agree with you, but am not sure that it qualifies as SH under the current legal definition especially if not communicated to the girl. It's doubtful that there will be sufficient evidence for the university to take any action that will not be challenged and overturned in court. Even actions based on proof are getting overturned these days like the NLSIU plagiarism controversy.
2. Again, I agree with you about it being abused. However, the only solution seems to be for the girl not to accept any help from the person, because shaming a person in the initial stage for offering help isn't really possible, nor can you dictate who goes out with whom. Maybe the girls can be counselled about how to draw the line and say no without feeling guilty or pressured and the boys can be counselled about how helping doesn't create any obligation from the girl's part. Otherwise, no real solution exists.
3 and 4. No argument there.
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And how does that in any way change this disgusting practice for the better?
Holy mother of god, this is disgusting. As a guy, I had no idea about this: during law school, I had a bad reputation of being that unsocial guy who protested against such bullshit even when in a group of guys (e.g. slut shaming), but I probably would have gone ballistic if I knew this. That is also probably why I was shielded from such filth when it happened.

Yes, I know this discussion is not about me (or problems men face (to protest)) and before you say that I just derailed the discussion: my point here is, speak openly (whether you are a man or a woman) so that when the time actually comes those who can or would want to protest would protest even inside a closed group with second hand information when things do not happen in front of their eyes. My anecdotal example is to demonstrate that one cannot protest 'unknown unknowns': I have an inherent handicap as a guy to not be able to see a lot of harassment. Discussions like these open horizons, and one can see what they otherwise could not earlier.
I disagree with comment 2 about rating girls not being SH. Here is the definition of SH as UN:

Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature when: • Submission to such conduct is made either explicitly or implicitly a term or condition of an individual's employment, or • Submission to or rejection of such conduct by an individual is used as a basis for employment decisions affecting such individual, or • Such conduct has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual's work performance or creating an intimidating, hostile, oroffensive working environment.


https://www.un.org/womenwatch/osagi/pdf/whatissh.pdf

It can clearly be seen that it is wide enough to cover rating junior girls by senior boys.
Legally speaking, all such conduct has to be communicated to the victim. That's where the loophole lies. Not that it makes the practice any less morally reprehensible, no matter what the law says.
I agree with 2. The "when" follows the first part of which, the widest provision is that the verbal or physical conduct must be of a sexual nature. These "rating" of a person without such person being present does not constitute sexual harassment, since the person does not come to know about it (is it sexist and misogynist? Most likely - depending on the conversation). There have been enough senior junior couples (people who dated) in history of law school to completely take a harder stance that what a senior junior boy interaction emanates from i.e. mutual attraction or power play. There is no doubt that if a girl rejects any sort of sexual advancement or if the girl is not in a position to reject sexual advancement it must immediately be addressed so that so called "slut shaming" is prevented. Also, I think a group in NUJS has already started a handbook and a help group for sexual harassment in law school with help from leading practitioners. Am sure some NUJS reader here would be able to direct people on how to approach them.
It's the Himmat initiative that you are referring to. They have a website now.
1. I'm not attacking anyone but trying to understand since you brought up a legal definition. From my understanding, comprehension and interpretation this doesn't seem to include acts which constitute rating women without them knowing about it. Could you elaborate which part of the definition mentioned here talks about it?
2. A morally incorrect act doesn't always have to be an offense. In this age of digital hypersensitivity, it'll end up with everyone being an offender.
One of the problems is that NLUs are in isolated areas where it is not easy to date outside college.
Wow, what an excuse! Does that mean NLU people also have a justification if one rapes or sexually assaults another? Because they are animals in heat who can't control themselves and don't have any other outlet?
The fact that this comment was allowed to be displayed on this thread, and not moderated with any tag........
- This was the comment from the earlier PDA post, just for context. The Original post spoke about how the OP wanted to emulate his seniors and date junior girls.
"looking forward to emulating them and dating girls from the new batches." What a misogynistic statement, statements like this really indicate the number of predators that exist in law schools. Under the garb of helping/mentoring, they use skewed power dynamics to hit on junior girls. Check your behaviour buddy, it's extremely problematic, and this mindset makes junior girls uncomfortable.

I'm speaking from my experience in a T-1 NLU, where seniors have hit on so many girls in my batch and made them uncomfortable. Of course, sometimes the attraction is mutual and they become couples, but that's the exception and not the norm. The norm is that it is predatory behaviour, and senior guys think that it's easier to hit on juniors since it's tougher for them to say no. There was in fact a group of boys in my NLU, who had a chat where they used to discuss and rate the bodies of junior girls. Not only did this group use their position as mentors to get closer to junior girls, but they actually hit on them regularly too despite their advances not being reciprocated. They even used blackmailing, guilting and other pressure tactics to get the girls to date them.

Rather than normalising it, it's time we end this culture.
Completely agree with this.

This coercion often comes from the entire friend group of that individual. And in addition to 1, not just internships but job offers and foreign university admissions too. Some of the individuals who've done this are now studying at top universities across the world (like oxbridge) and working at top Indian firms. Rather than being held accountable for what they've done, they are given free reign to continue this problematic behaviour elsewhere.
Senior boys go up to newbie girls make empty boasts, which they are impressed by. These girls are teenagers fresh out of CLAT coaching centres with zero idea of the world, so they don't know that 99% of the things said to them by senior boys are BS and bragging. Newbie girls are so clueless that they think you are a stud simply if you tell them that Shaw is a good book for PIL. You will get more gyaan from Lawctopus or SuperLawyer or LI than from these douchebag seniors.
NUJS senior guys are the most shameless and pervy of all. They stand in the boys hostel balcony and lech at the girls below, in the common central area. They openly smirk and "rate" them. They then come downstairs and chat with the "top rated" girls and offer to help them, acting all sweet and kind. 🤮🤮

Any fresher girl reading this, my advice is to go to NIFT next door and date guys there. A lot more decent.
Any fresher girl will be better off focusing on her studies and skill building for the first two years and then start the dating once they have got a good understanding of what to expect and how to deal with it. Better make good friends instead throughout the five years whom you can rely upon in law school and beyond.
Its nice that you offer the only correct viewpoint, and have decided that these girls should listen to you. OF course they're dying to know what you think!
What about there being online proms where juniors have to become coupled with seniors? Isn't that a set up to this build up too?
A "woke" student from (...) was named and shamed on (...) for gaslighting junior girls. What happened? NOTHING. He got scholarships to prestigious UK colleges and will probably end up as a lecture there on human rights.

This is the state of NLUs in India.
Same situation at NALSAR. This senior boy had multiple complaints against him and the admin did not take action against him. His batch girls thankfully warned us against him. They also told us he used to walk into the girls hostel with impunity at night and verbally harass the girls and the admin did nothing because the VC favoured him. He repeated a few years because of health issues or something but he was on campus for so many years repeating the same behaviour and harassing so many subsequent batches as well and yet nothing was ever done.
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Heyyyaaa dear sistaa ❤️❤️

Not disclosing your name since that's an automatic kick out by the moderator. If you had an opportunity - you would have done the same to slut shame me.

First of all my love for your attention to this important matter 🥺 - which is more important than every pressing issue in law school for the past 4 years 😢.

You have been starting this thread on Legally India for atleast 10 times. What do you want? Why are you so concerned?

We know each other - in depth - you were trying to talk trash about me and my boyfriend in final year. Don't claim - this is not the OP you are talking about. We both know, don't take my grace and kindness as my weakness.

While you were in 3rd Year, you guys broke up - because you were extremely toxic. And he came to me who was in 1st Year - as a friend. And I asked him out and not the other way round - got it? . STOP talking trash all the time.

Then you accused that poor man of being a creep attracted to younger girls. You told that I ruined your relationship. (PS. I was not even there in law school when you destroyed your own relationship with him.)

At that time - you blamed me for ruining your relationship - starting an affair - WHATTTT? . But that was never ever the case; I came way after your relationship was dysfunctional and over.

You have already graduated - why don't we settle this issue today?

And I am getting help from your ex boyfriend? What a joke man 😂

While you got good grades and received a placement; your ex was suffering. He was taking meds. And guess what? - even after all your abuse against us - he was telling good things about you.

I wrote his 4th & 5th projects, encouraged him to study, get out of the sad life he was having..

With your toxic relationship - his grades were so bad, with repeat and exam failures. I made that improved.

I NEVER GOT A SINGLE HELP FROM YOUR EX - it was all the other way round. I helped him to succeed.

He is laughing at this thread. But glad that he atleast understands the level you will stoop down for something which can no longer be changed.

Stop starting LI threads because of your personal failure; focus more on your life; go for therapy.

What you are telling is,

An 18 year old girl in first year of lawschool is dumb - totally.

She doesn't have any bodily autonomy.
She doesn't know what decisions to make.
She doesn't know whom to talk to.
She doesn't know how to get into a relationship.
She doesn't know what's abuse.
She doesn't know basics of dating, sex and relationships.
She is a gold digger who only looks at senior boys for assignments, moots and Placements.
She doesn't have a soul of her own - she sells herself for assignments? What???

It seems your thread is now inspired out of Manusmriti or love jihad law.

STOP assuming that every first year girl who gets into a relationship with a Senior Boy is having some serious issues and that 5th Year boys are 'predators'. Most of us don't get any help from these guys.

There are even couples having 15 to 25 years age gap - and in 80 percent of these cases - the older one in the relationship is the man.

Does that mean all bollywood actresses are victims and kids - -?

Manyataa Dutt, Kareena Kapoor, Saira Banu, Sreedevi etc are damsels in distress - according to your logic.

Even in the western world - women date and marry older guys. By your logic - almost half of all women on planet earth are forced into a relationship? - never mind.

Your 'logic' was used in the love jihad law too. A hindu girl is always vulnerable/ and is easily taken over by the predatory Muslim boy?

Any relationship where both the parties are having the age of consent and both are doing this consensually - stop putting your long nose into thier personal affairs.

Atleast as a fresh lawyer - start reading Livelaw and Bar & Bench, instead of Legally India rubbish. See Supreme Court Judgements on consent - relationships.

I am in relationship with your ex - doesn't mean he is attracted to me because I am what? 4 years younger? No. Stop making this shit up.

I am dating him because you ruined his everyday peace, destroyed hope - I took an unstable man and now he smiles, eats and works on himself every day.

Anyways, get over your breakup - stop making this shit up every week. Next time - I will not 'politely' explain in this way; it will directly go as a harassment complaint.

This is the 10th post you are making - just for your personal vendatta.

To LI Readers,

Read everything with a spoon of salt.

Why do you think someone is particularly interested in preventing Senior Boy - Junior Girl relationships - all of a sudden even going to the extent of starting 5 to 10 threads spamming an already spammy platform.

To see the extent of desperation - see the title SERIOUS DISCUSSION - is this the biggest crisis anyone is facing.

Please use your brain to filter out trash.

These age gap (Senior Male - Junior Female) threads are floating over LI for a long time.

Most of these relationships - doesn't even have a power/money/Academic help component.

Many of my friends during junior years have dated Seniors - it's just because love doesn't have age limits. And in most of our cases - we haven't received a single help from these boys. Stop slut shaming 😭

And there are cases like mine - where we ended up being semi - mother's to these boys 😂

And to you, I don't have to be this civil to you. Ever.

Even ex - wifes who share thier own children - become civil to the new wife over the time.

Even thou ours is not that case (or even remotely connected) see this video in case it helps you to see the extent of which toxic people change https://youtu.be/qx8IyyPS3ic

And regarding 'Training First Year Girls that all 5th Year Boys are scum' comment - who are you to tell that. Who are you to assume all this?

Many junior girls may end up dating Senior boys - and all we need to be careful is of girls like you - who generalize based on 1% of cases. Where 99% are going good.

Abuse even happens in cases where a Senior Girl dates a Junior Guy - there also guys do perpetuate some of these actions. Why don't you confront that?

Real misogynists and abusers are women like you who judge everything in front of you.

Anyways - please stop using LI to settle scores. This is addressed to you to stop making the next 100 "SERIOUS DISCUSSIONS ON SENIOR BOY JUNIOR GIRL RELATIONSHIPS 😮" here.

Bye
Did I read this piece of gossip about some total strangers? No
Do I want to read the longsass piece of gossip?
Hell, yeah!!
Koi cruz dedo
I can’t tell if this comment is satire but so many things you’ve typed out here are so concerning (you’re his pseudo mom???).

Please know that the subject matter of this thread is a very real concern for most of us girls who go through these law schools. I myself studied in a tier 2 NLU in a remote part of India, have faced this issue and more importantly, know through the whisper networks of my hostels of scores of other girls who have been seen as ‘fresh meat’ by senior boys.

Tldr; You posting your personal business on this forum is a little cringe. Ye sab WhatsApp insta pe sort kario
R, or Kian. I hope you realize what a stupid reply/comment this is. Please remove it. It is full-on garbage on the homepage of LegallyIndia, which I'm increasingly seeing falling from grace. Please do something.
I have stopped so low that besides watching strangers arguing in Facebook's comment section, I enjoy the gossip type things on LI.
Girls, please don't sacrifice your dignity and self-respect just for help with studies and internship applications. There are plenty of resources online. And especially beware of senior boys who boast they can get internships for you at CAM, AZB etc through their contacts. They can't and they won't.
Rule of thumb for girls: Avoid any senior boy who starts a conversation with you by boasting that he has contacts and can arrange internships for her, or boasting that he is a stud mooter and can help her with the first year moot selections, or boasting that that he is an academic hotshot and can give her tips to score good grades.
Is it predatory if a male college senior only approaches a female junior for committee work instead of other first-year members? I have been feeling uncomfortable around this senior and he approaches me for work by texting personally or calling instead of flagging the tasks on the main group. This behaviour irks me to no end. On other hand, I would like to appreciate another senior from a different college who respects the boundary and actually helped me to figure out things.
See the movie Promising Young Woman, currently on Prime. That is the epitome of how senior boys in NLUs treat junior girls.
As a comment on LI has noted, have been WhatsApp and Telegram chats at an NLU where first year girls have been "rated" by senior boys for "fun" and "as a joke". I know which NLU this is.

Let me warn any senior boy doing this that if these chats are saved and get leaked, you will be in big trouble pal. The police can potentially be called too. Not only must you learn to be a better human being but you must also have some brains to not do something so foolish and wreck your career.
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