With the decline that has occurred at NUJS over years,and with it being starkly underfunded as compared to NALSAR, NLUD, NLSIU, GNLU and even other NLUs and it's administration/infrastructure/library/faculty becoming lax compared to others and a small and restricted campus and problems with online classes - does NUJS really deserve to be called a top NLU, considering there are other NLUs much better than it and even some Non - NLUs,
One thing I have understood from LI is that infrastructure, faculty, VC etc. everything can be jackshit but the only credible measure of an NLU is how many Tier-I law firm placements they make. NLUs are basically glorified recruitment grooming agencies.
NUJS does pretty well on that front: the other good things are merely added bonuses.
Not really. But one thing that you should have understood that if all the facilities provided at a university do not lead to demonstrably better student performance in any field, then such facilities are really not germane to your legal education. Similarly, while trolls keep downplaying the demonstrably better perfomance of NUJS students in law firm recruitment, they keep forgetting that the same students are also behind none in higher education, scholarships including Rhodes, entrepreneurial activities, moots, and other competitions and parameters actually used to measure student performance. Obviously, if those facts are acknowledged, then the trolls will also have to admit that all the supposed disadvantages at NUJS are not really affecting student education much, or that most of such disadvantages are exaggerated in this forum.
Fair enough - this is a well-thought answer. I, for even a second, do not doubt either the capability or the credibility of NUJS, as you would understand from my comment.
If you observe the CNLU/DSNLU/NLU-Ranchi discussion (one about NIRF rankings and the other thread about what is an NLU) - people literally exclusively focused on Tier-I placements. That students go into judiciary from CNLU was being mocked openly and on the 'What is an NLU' thread, the top comment said that the NLUs without placements do not even deserve to be called NLUs. I am sure students from CNLU/DSNLU/NLU-Ranchi do have other demonstrable achievements when compared to institutions founded in the same years.
NUJS isn't a top 3. It's a top 4. NLUD has displaced it and NALSAR for quite a while now. The only area where it is a top 3 is in domestic corporate law firm placements (might be even number 1 there). The Noojies can go around calling themselves top 3 all they like (maybe with support from their little buddies from NALSAR and NLS), it doesn't change the facts. Even though the Noojie army will downvote me into oblivion for saying it as it is, they also know deep down that if they were taking the CLAT/AILET today, they'd prefer NLUD over WBNUJS.
The only place where NLUD students actually perform better than NUJS students is UPSC. Which has got nothing to do with the university. So, one may argue that NLUD students shouldn't bask in the glory of being from one of the 'top 3' either.
As for the OP, that's clearly smacking of jealousy at the NUJS students performing equally as or better than the students from every other NLU despite having 'less funding' and other obstacles. Also, what problem with online classes? The university actually provided funding to every student needing help to get internet connectivity for online classes, and has given every break possible. More than several other NLUs (including the 'richer' ones) have done.
This is the typical middle class Indian mentality where you'll say that the worth of a university is merely based on student achievements and placement numbers. Student achievements are no doubt a big deal, but there are other areas as well which influence how good a university is compared to another. Faculty, infrastructure, location, administration and research academic exposure/opportunities all factor in. Now you'll say that despite having all these if NLUD students are not having more placements than NUJS, then these are all unimportant/irrelevant to legal education. But what you fail to see is that these are not variables that give returns over the immediate term, unlike placement numbers.
Having a good professor teach you a subject is something that broadens your exposure and your view in a way that you'll realise only a few years after you graduate. Having a good administration and infrastructure also make a big difference in learning (and maybe, but not necessarily placement) outcomes. Can you name even one research centre at NUJS that has done as much good work as Project 39A, for instance? I am not saying that NLUD students are better than NUJS' but the fact is that in many of these other areas, NLUD is better. Just because NUJS is not as good as NLUD in these areas doesn't mean that NUJS students are bad or their quality suspect. It's not as if it's the fault of NUJS students that their administration has been characterised by inefficiency over the past few years. But when it comes to ranking a university, it's not merely about graduation outcomes. Don't take this personally and try to engage with it constructively. It wouldn't be fair to mislead a prospective student by merely claiming placement numbers as a sign of being a better college.
Again, if all the infra, location advantages, being taught by better faculty are not making the students demonstrably better as lawyers, then most of those advantages are on paper only. For instance, you can have a faculty member doing research 7 days a week and writing a paper a month. Doesn't mean squat to a student unless the person spends time in class disseminating the knowledge that they have acquired in a manner helpful to the students. The sole purpose is not placement, that's true. But that is one of the metrics. You keep trying to put up a smokescreen referring to placements everytime graduate outcome is mentioned. Why not mention other areas where NLUD students demonstrably perform better? Scholarships, litigation, moots, ADR competition, entrepreneurship and so on? And if you cannot show such areas, then people will keep asking the question that what all are those advantages coming down to? The purpose of a law university is to transform students into good lawyers. If faculty research was the only goal, then it may as well be a research institution, not a university. You say being taught by a better faculty is a better experience. True enough, but if that doesn't help you learn better law compared to others being taught by 'worse faculty', then how better is the faculty actually? Location advantage is really overrated in this day and age, where people can communicate, research, collaborate and learn remotely. It is not as if the NLUD students go for internships in Delhi everyday after class. The better faculty argument is also debatable. You have 3-4 good people now like Arul, Danny and Anup. The rest aren't really that different from other NLUs. Especially after Mrinal and Aparna left. The point is, stop proclaiming yourself as superior to others, because there is not really any evidence of that. If you actually are doing well, then you don't need to speak for yourself, others will acknowledge it nonetheless. By the way, if the research quality is so high at NLUD, then why is it marked behind multiple other private law universities in research score in NIRF?
2. Litigation: Both institutions grads below 15 years PQE, too young to judge.
3. Moots: Winner of Viz 3 teams now (NUJS), NLUD - highest point (oxford price media)
4. ADR: NUJS literally the first to have an ADR society, a mediation clinic; plus ODRways/SAMA start up by NUJS students now the biggest online platform for mediation in the country
5. Entrepreneurship: Highest number of start ups (NUJS - Lawctopus, LawSikho, iPleaders, SAMA/ODRWays, CLATapult, Timespade, EazyCoach and many others). Name 2 good start ups from NLUD again?
Correct, UPSC is a degree neutral competitive exam for government jobs. Any graduate can give UPSC. It is unfair to judge a medical or law school based on UPSC. Like go compare yourself to Delhi university or Allahabad university if you wanna go by that metric.
NLUD has displaced the others and done what exactly? I mean the students of NLUD. I don't see them turning into better lawyers than those from NALSAR, NUJS etc. So all this chest thumping is amusing.
NUJS has never been in top 3 in NIRF ad this year's rank of 4 was the highest. So the question should be whether NUJS deserves top 4 status. In my view the answer is NO, because law firm placements cannot be the sole determinant. Look at admin, faculty, campus infra and non-law firm careers: Litigation, UPSC, LLM, Rhodes etc. GNLU is better on an overall analysis.
Huh? What are you smoking? In every career that you mentioned, NUJS students have been performing great over the years. It is the only NLU other than NLSIU to have 4 Rhodes scholars till date. Please take your ignorance somewhere else.
Is UPSC a criteria to judge a Medical school???? Is UPSC a criteria to judge an architectural school??? Would you judge a B.Pharma course on how many from there clear UPSC??? NO. You do not treat a professional medical or law school like a BA degree. You do not judge AIIMS from how many people become Indian Railway Services officer. Keep this UPSC obsession to where it belongs and not to law school rankings.
I don't know if you've noticed but NUJS is pretty much back again post Bhat.
1. NIRF top 4 - slightly behind NLUD and NALSAR.
2. It has opened 6 new funded research centers in the past 1 year - which is going to seriously boost rankings next year in the research & publications score. All research centers had shut down under Talukdar's regime.
3. New faculty recruitment: regardless of the quality, NIRF faculty scores depend on total years of teaching experience + student-faculty ratio - both of which will be significantly boosted.
4. Consistent top tables in placements: It's been topping the recruitment tables for 4 continuous years now.
5. Highest number of law firm partners - above NLS in that aspect.
6. Increased interest in higher education - a total of 4 Rhodes scholars by now, plus a Harvard Law admit almost every year almost since the last 5 years.
While the new VC may not be the best of scholars, he certainly understands the rankings game - both KIIT Law School and NUJS (of which he has been the VC - have received gotten a significant upgrade in rankings lately).
First of all, let's not see everyone through the lens of a NIRF ranking. If rankings are the important, even JGLS is a QS World Rankings school and for that matter the only one from India (Law schools). What the primary question is whether NUJS should be called a "Top" NLU/Law school - a tag which it has carried for years and is it really that great given that others are doing considerably better. Trust me, as someone who is from NUJS only and that too one a recent admissions - there is nothing great about it. The administration doesn't respond to emails, SJA and student bodies are most of the time sleeping and doing nothing about the stuff that matters and every student be it Bo26, Bo25 or Bo24 has some inflated ego or superiority complex. Noojies have a smaller heart than there campus. If I had the chance, I would have changed NUJS for even a non-NLU.
You haven't been to college, friend! You're literally judging a college based on an online program. Give it time. Even Cambridge would feel stupid if you did it online (I'm a NUJS-Cambridge grad, hence that example).
I honestly feel sad for the new batches. They've hardly any good college experiences. The problem is when these batches return to campus, they'll be the 'senior' batch and will have nothing to pass down to the juniors. So many college cultures will be lost post the pandemic. This is even truer for colleges which have shorter 2-3 year programs (MBA, B.A., B.Sc. etc)
If you really are from NUJS and you really feel that way, and are not simply trolling here for the sake of it, then you can and should get in touch with good, responsible seniors and even some of the younger faculty members. I was helped by people from both the categories a lot during my own time there, and I would have tried to help you too myself had I known who you really are. Keep the ranks and other negativity that are the hallmark of LI threads away from your mind, focus on your physical and mental health, the people close to you, and how to make the best of the opportunities available to you, and you will do well both within the university and outside it. COVID may have made everything a little less bearable, but I hope you get more kindness then you have been shown till now. All the very best!
NUJS does pretty well on that front: the other good things are merely added bonuses.
If you observe the CNLU/DSNLU/NLU-Ranchi discussion (one about NIRF rankings and the other thread about what is an NLU) - people literally exclusively focused on Tier-I placements. That students go into judiciary from CNLU was being mocked openly and on the 'What is an NLU' thread, the top comment said that the NLUs without placements do not even deserve to be called NLUs. I am sure students from CNLU/DSNLU/NLU-Ranchi do have other demonstrable achievements when compared to institutions founded in the same years.
As for the OP, that's clearly smacking of jealousy at the NUJS students performing equally as or better than the students from every other NLU despite having 'less funding' and other obstacles. Also, what problem with online classes? The university actually provided funding to every student needing help to get internet connectivity for online classes, and has given every break possible. More than several other NLUs (including the 'richer' ones) have done.
Having a good professor teach you a subject is something that broadens your exposure and your view in a way that you'll realise only a few years after you graduate. Having a good administration and infrastructure also make a big difference in learning (and maybe, but not necessarily placement) outcomes. Can you name even one research centre at NUJS that has done as much good work as Project 39A, for instance? I am not saying that NLUD students are better than NUJS' but the fact is that in many of these other areas, NLUD is better. Just because NUJS is not as good as NLUD in these areas doesn't mean that NUJS students are bad or their quality suspect. It's not as if it's the fault of NUJS students that their administration has been characterised by inefficiency over the past few years. But when it comes to ranking a university, it's not merely about graduation outcomes. Don't take this personally and try to engage with it constructively. It wouldn't be fair to mislead a prospective student by merely claiming placement numbers as a sign of being a better college.
By the way, if the research quality is so high at NLUD, then why is it marked behind multiple other private law universities in research score in NIRF?
1. Scholarships: 4 Rhodes (NUJS), 0 Rhodes (NLUD)
2. Litigation: Both institutions grads below 15 years PQE, too young to judge.
3. Moots: Winner of Viz 3 teams now (NUJS), NLUD - highest point (oxford price media)
4. ADR: NUJS literally the first to have an ADR society, a mediation clinic; plus ODRways/SAMA start up by NUJS students now the biggest online platform for mediation in the country
5. Entrepreneurship: Highest number of start ups (NUJS - Lawctopus, LawSikho, iPleaders, SAMA/ODRWays, CLATapult, Timespade, EazyCoach and many others). Name 2 good start ups from NLUD again?
1. NIRF top 4 - slightly behind NLUD and NALSAR.
2. It has opened 6 new funded research centers in the past 1 year - which is going to seriously boost rankings next year in the research & publications score. All research centers had shut down under Talukdar's regime.
3. New faculty recruitment: regardless of the quality, NIRF faculty scores depend on total years of teaching experience + student-faculty ratio - both of which will be significantly boosted.
4. Consistent top tables in placements: It's been topping the recruitment tables for 4 continuous years now.
5. Highest number of law firm partners - above NLS in that aspect.
6. Increased interest in higher education - a total of 4 Rhodes scholars by now, plus a Harvard Law admit almost every year almost since the last 5 years.
While the new VC may not be the best of scholars, he certainly understands the rankings game - both KIIT Law School and NUJS (of which he has been the VC - have received gotten a significant upgrade in rankings lately).
I honestly feel sad for the new batches. They've hardly any good college experiences. The problem is when these batches return to campus, they'll be the 'senior' batch and will have nothing to pass down to the juniors. So many college cultures will be lost post the pandemic. This is even truer for colleges which have shorter 2-3 year programs (MBA, B.A., B.Sc. etc)