There has been several posts and comments on LI highlighting shortcomings of CAM, however, given the scale at which it operates, I am sure there are certain good things also about CAM. Whatever little time that I have spent at another tier-1 (non CAM) law firm, I have realized that one's law firm experience is more dependent on the team and not the firm. If you have heard anything good about the firm such as any particular partner who is good to work with please do share. Also any idea how much remuneration they pay to A3 and A4? Thanks.
Honestly, everything is good at CAM. Don't know why but it has become a customary practice to defame CAM on every possible occasion. If not anything, people should at-least respect an institution that has been in existence before the Supreme Court existed, before independence, before most of the laws of the country and even before the second world war!
Agree with OP that there might be shortcomings in few teams but the personal experience of a few should not be used to collectively defame a firm of this stature. Most people defaming CAM and the MP don't have the slightest idea about running a firm but just want to defame the firm anonymously.
Totally! The modern, visionary and far ahead of the curve management style of the MP includes threatening his own partners, cutting salaries of associates and blaming everyone for not being grateful enough for that.
For all his criticism of "smaller platforms", some people need to realise that the only reason they exist is because of two generations of family privilege.
I mean, leaving aside the fact that CAM started in about 5-6 years ago and assuming you mean erstwhile AMSS, colonialism also existed before the establishment of the Supreme Court.
As a fresher, I really like the fact that the firm encourages it's newcomers to experience different teams before getting absorbed by one practice area. The rotation system of the firm is really a nice initiative, even though it causes a lot of inconvenience to the partners and the teams - as they have to train new set of ATPs every 6 months, the work gets disrupted etc. Despite this, every senior actually takes out time and tries to train you.
and then the team discourages you steadily until you leave on your own or become part of the sucking up toxic culture of firing new joiners. You get promoted in the latter and shown the door with reduced exp (CAM exp is always discounted) in the formed.
Also "fresher" how was your exp in the last 2 years. Kind enough to guide others?
100 percent right.infact employees should be even more grateful that it's called gratitude sessions and not grovelling sessions meant to make the firm lords feel powerful.
Forgot "salary deferrals" and arrears being prolonged installments to deter or defer attrition, the new hierarchy creations to avoid promotions i.e senior associate designate,partner designate, PA designate and now I think even associate designate might come in, the hide and seek games to know your hike or band hike, the reversal of the hyped PR of the permanent wfh policy being passed off as people want to come to office etc etc etc.So much to be grateful for, no wonder the "office camaraderie" is increasing because partners must remind subjects/retainers of so much to be grateful for in "Gratitude sessions"
One good is that people doing good at CAM can be gifted "CAMSTAR" of theyear award, if that's already something they don't do high time they start going it.
Lol..isn't CAM the "legal advisor" of the Adanis, in a clear breach of conflict of interest? Wasn't it's offices raided in connection with Nirav Modi scam?
My only interaction at this firm was with Kiran Patheja - a warm, forthcoming and dynamic personality. I am sure that the abovementioned qualities are what are the benchmark of any or every person/resourse with a say there. In my humble opinion 🙏🏻
I sometimes do feel bad for CAM associates but for the most part I think they call for and get such bad treatment within their firm because the some I have dealt with,as an opponent, were just horrible and it's because no one has the courage as lawyer to stand up for their respect.I can't think of one good thing for CAM, and in this pandemic its been most opportunistic exploiters from cutting salaries to make a bonus an illusionary band hike announcement.It was always as bad as many other Tier1s, but tge pandemic time acts gives it "leader" position as worst platform
CAM cutting salaries when it was a profitable firm is just not something I can digest.Its not just unreasonable its unforgivable.You want employees to sacrifice or forgo their fixed salaries to save your profitable firm and tide over in a pandemic, not done.The level of selfishness tells any one that this is one firm that doesn't care at all for employees. Nothing is good or good enough about a firm to make up for doing that to it's own employees.
I think the firm is what its people make it to be.
So far, the folks I've worked with are intelligent, committed to providing solid work product, dedicated to timelines and yeah, are willing to spend sleepless nights to the ruin of their own personal lives, while ensuring that client expectations are met.
Could the MP be a bit more empathetic? Sure. But then again, he isn't the firm on his own. Is the equity skewed? Perhaps, but that's not my problem, till (and if) I make it to partner. Tab ki tab dekhenge.
Most of all, though, to all those who have an issue with the firm, I empathize. I feel your pain. I would also recommend that if a conflict exists between your values and those of the firm, you move on to a firm / organisation whose work environment is better suited to your set of values / principles.
Note that I do not say this with any hint of sarcasm. The place I'm coming from is this - is CAM one of the best places to learn the trade (that of working on high-value mandates and learning how to deal with pressure at its highest)? Absolutely yes. Does it have some of the smartest folks you can learn from? Without a doubt. Can the pressures of the job and meeting client deadlines and giving your best to multiple transactions while retaining your sanity become impossible? Yes, it can and it does. Maybe not now, maybe later, but it does.
But here's the thing, right? You have to make the choice for your own self. If your motivations to work at any of the top firms in the country is money, then you must make your peace with the fact that a seismic shift in the way the firms work is not going to happen - that's not how they reached the pinnacle of being the rainmakers that they are and the world doesn't owe them, you, or me, any favours.
It's cruel. It's unfair at times. It wrecks minds. But it is what it is. Over the course of my tenure so far, I haven't slept well, I've worked harder than I ever have, I've torn my hair out and I have cried when my partner lost it at me for messing up simple things that I should've caught on to.
But I've also learnt the most I have. More than law school. More than my last job. The same partner who lost it at me has called me back to apologise, explained concepts that I should have known already, helped me arrive at the answer, and then gone back to the fifteen other transactions waiting on his/her desk, without batting an eyelid. The same work that drove me nuts and robbed me of my sleep makes me proud - not for anything else than the fact that I ran an entire transaction, from beginning to the end. Does that matter to you? Probably not. Does that matter to me? More than you can ever know.
It's about the little things. More importantly, though, it's about the choices you make.
I would love to have a job that would pay me well, with reasonable work hours. Someday. For now, I'm good to sit down, get my ass handed to me when I mess up, learn from some of the smartest lawyers I know and be thankful that I have the privilege to enjoy this while it lasts. I know myself well - the day it becomes too much, I'm out that door.
For now, though, to answer your question - there's a whole lot of good to CAM. It's just how you choose to see things.
Let's talk about elephant in the room, Mr Omar Ahmad jee. He is one of the most remarkable lawyers of the CAM. His technical skills and legal acumen are of Harvard Cambridge calibre. He also a good mentor and guide on matters of life and substances. May the force be with them ALL!!
Any idea if Omar Ahmed hires people with International commercial arbitration exp? Seems like a nice senior, was considering applying. PQE 2+. Boutique middle-eastern ICA firm currently.
I know RBD and SP handle most of CAM arb, but Omar seems like a particularly chill guy.
The scale is a result of the hard work of the previous generations leading to the building of the AMSS brand.Scale is indicator of quantity/size, not If humanity or humane conduct.
.lyindia.com/law-firms/cyril-amarchand-allegation-ex-chennai-team-took-client-files-cites-cctv-shardul-whatsapp-evidence-20161014-8042 From the article:- "CAM’s filing followed talks between CAM and Thomas about the future of the Chennai office, with suggestions that Thomas and her team should practice independently in a close relationship with CAM However, Thomas and her team members eventually accepted offers from SAM, as we reported on Sunday." When it comes to money, CAM takes all of the cake.Cutting salaries, or as called "deferrals"during covid pandemic and feeding disaster scenarios to employees to justify the move while CSS buys real estate.Reminds of the time allegations were levelled at CAM,now settled, when the Chennai office exited en mass and moved to SAM.Apparently that time CAM was insisting that Chennai office run independently but still work closely with CAM.The money management strategy at CAM is top class - all the work-yours, all the risk - yours, all the profits - mine.
If you have heard anything good about the firm such as any particular partner who is good to work with please do share. Also any idea how much remuneration they pay to A3 and A4? Thanks.
Agree with OP that there might be shortcomings in few teams but the personal experience of a few should not be used to collectively defame a firm of this stature. Most people defaming CAM and the MP don't have the slightest idea about running a firm but just want to defame the firm anonymously.
Also, since when is number of years a parameter to measure legitimacy of an institution?
For all his criticism of "smaller platforms", some people need to realise that the only reason they exist is because of two generations of family privilege.
That's a really beautiful feature of this firm :)
Also "fresher" how was your exp in the last 2 years. Kind enough to guide others?
1. Dynamic Flexible Permanent Work from Home Policy: Par third wave ke beech mein office aana hi padega
2. Highest Paymaster: Only on Bar and Bench articles, otherwise salary cut threats without any reason.
3. Office Camaraderie: MP threatens partners every week
4. Best Office Perks: No lunch, no dinner, no cab, no phone, no wifi and of course, the slowest computer system.
5. Gratitude Sessions: MP scolds everyone for not thanking him enough.
5. Gratitude Sessions: MP scolds everyone for not thanking him enough.......ha ha ha....
That it has nurtured real talent and stars like L Viswanathan, Ashwath, Umakanth, Nisha, Reeba, Yash, Nivedita, Arjun.
That CSS still has a strong morale compass.
Lots good about CAM.
Read:
https://www.legallyindia.com/law-firms/unexpected-last-day-today-for-25-ashwath-fee-earners-partners-at-cam-as-azb-releases-6-of-percy-s-early-20160531-7654
So far, the folks I've worked with are intelligent, committed to providing solid work product, dedicated to timelines and yeah, are willing to spend sleepless nights to the ruin of their own personal lives, while ensuring that client expectations are met.
Could the MP be a bit more empathetic? Sure. But then again, he isn't the firm on his own. Is the equity skewed? Perhaps, but that's not my problem, till (and if) I make it to partner. Tab ki tab dekhenge.
Most of all, though, to all those who have an issue with the firm, I empathize. I feel your pain. I would also recommend that if a conflict exists between your values and those of the firm, you move on to a firm / organisation whose work environment is better suited to your set of values / principles.
Note that I do not say this with any hint of sarcasm. The place I'm coming from is this - is CAM one of the best places to learn the trade (that of working on high-value mandates and learning how to deal with pressure at its highest)? Absolutely yes. Does it have some of the smartest folks you can learn from? Without a doubt. Can the pressures of the job and meeting client deadlines and giving your best to multiple transactions while retaining your sanity become impossible? Yes, it can and it does. Maybe not now, maybe later, but it does.
But here's the thing, right? You have to make the choice for your own self. If your motivations to work at any of the top firms in the country is money, then you must make your peace with the fact that a seismic shift in the way the firms work is not going to happen - that's not how they reached the pinnacle of being the rainmakers that they are and the world doesn't owe them, you, or me, any favours.
It's cruel. It's unfair at times. It wrecks minds. But it is what it is. Over the course of my tenure so far, I haven't slept well, I've worked harder than I ever have, I've torn my hair out and I have cried when my partner lost it at me for messing up simple things that I should've caught on to.
But I've also learnt the most I have. More than law school. More than my last job. The same partner who lost it at me has called me back to apologise, explained concepts that I should have known already, helped me arrive at the answer, and then gone back to the fifteen other transactions waiting on his/her desk, without batting an eyelid. The same work that drove me nuts and robbed me of my sleep makes me proud - not for anything else than the fact that I ran an entire transaction, from beginning to the end. Does that matter to you? Probably not. Does that matter to me? More than you can ever know.
It's about the little things. More importantly, though, it's about the choices you make.
I would love to have a job that would pay me well, with reasonable work hours. Someday. For now, I'm good to sit down, get my ass handed to me when I mess up, learn from some of the smartest lawyers I know and be thankful that I have the privilege to enjoy this while it lasts. I know myself well - the day it becomes too much, I'm out that door.
For now, though, to answer your question - there's a whole lot of good to CAM. It's just how you choose to see things.
People who've trained in CAM and have had the common sense to leave it.
I know RBD and SP handle most of CAM arb, but Omar seems like a particularly chill guy.
From the article:-
"CAM’s filing followed talks between CAM and Thomas about the future of the Chennai office, with suggestions that Thomas and her team should practice independently in a close relationship with CAM However, Thomas and her team members eventually accepted offers from SAM, as we reported on Sunday."
When it comes to money, CAM takes all of the cake.Cutting salaries, or as called "deferrals"during covid pandemic and feeding disaster scenarios to employees to justify the move while CSS buys real estate.Reminds of the time allegations were levelled at CAM,now settled, when the Chennai office exited en mass and moved to SAM.Apparently that time CAM was insisting that Chennai office run independently but still work closely with CAM.The money management strategy at CAM is top class - all the work-yours, all the risk - yours, all the profits - mine.
(Not kidding)