This is not going to work. You may be able to write the bar but nobody is going to hire you. Some places you may not even be able to write the bar.
If you want a good job with 90% certainty, do a JD from a top 5 law school in US. And pray that visa rules ease 3 years down the line.
Also, you need to learn Dutch / French for EU (preferably both) or Mandarin (Singapore) or Arabic (Dubai). Sure you will see some Indian lawyers working in these jurisdictions without these qualifications, but the success rate is very low of getting a job that way.
I am from NLS and my batchmates have done Masters in law from reputed universities and are now employed in foreign law firms. The only catch here probably is that you need to do masters from one of the prestigious US universities to catch the eye of the recruiters. One of my acquaintances is now having a stellar career in world bank thanks to his Harvard master. A lot of foreign BA LLB students come to USA every year to do masters. I am not saying all of them remain in USA, mostly go back to pursue academics, but there are examples of people landing proper legal/academic jobs in US and UK. In US, NY bar and California bar are the easier ones to pass.
Dubai and other Emirates are good for real estate. A lot of construction companies also hire in-house Indian lawyers. A friend from Khaitan migrated to one of these construction firms.
Another friend has cleared bar exam of France. I am forgetting where her LLM was from. She is probably going into academics.
Two friends from Nalsar had become lecturer. One in Bristol university the other is a faculty at Oxford. Will request OP to find out connections through/linked in google and find out about their journeys. You are definitely employable in foreign jurisdictions like US after completing masters there. It might not be a smooth sail, but definitely worth trying. Don't get disheartened by any negative posts.
Pick any five year period of NLS of your choice after 2005. Out of 400 lawyers, you won't find more than 8 (2%) employed by foreign law firms after their LLM (don't include those who went to London through the TC route - they got jobs from their vacation scheme not because of the LLM)
Do you even know which work visa is required for the US and what's are the H1B lottery odds like? Don't come crying here later.
Hey Alias, it seems you are coming from a good place and probably thinking about OP's wellbeing. OP has not asked about financial troubles (it might even seem that he has that sorted) and sure the migration is not easy and everyone knows about the visa issues, but you word for word said that "NO ONE'S GOING TO HIRE YOU." Which is factually just plain wrong.
Every single Linked-in profile of an Indian lawyer who is working abroad is a LITERAL evidence that you can successfully get hired in the US/elsewhere. A simple google will give you multiple in your face evidences that yes Indian lawyers are very much employable in the US and other places. If these people can work there so can OP. But yes the path to get there might be a bit tough. Just today I came across the news that Mohit Khubchandani, an India litigator for three years, got placed in a London law firm. Before that he was in 'several organs' of the United Nations. He is no TC candidate. Get your facts straight. TC is not the only option. Giving his example as it is as recent as today and also because it also shows that hard work can get you anywhere.
The slate link was shared by lot of lawyers on linkedin. None of whom had a Harvard/Stanford degree (yes bite it, elite law schools help your career) and what is surprising is like Alias pointed out that the link itself does not talk about law at all. The truth is law and allied fields are highly employable in the US and EU. Forget law firms, you can make careers in United Nations, World Bank and other international bodies or In-house roles. Get enrolled in the eligible US bar and do clerkship or join a small/big firm office. Hell people have gone to become lecturers. It is easy to solve your visa woes once you are in a respectable. high earning and giving back to the society type roles.
So yeah I would like to say to OP that yes it is possible to get recruited in the US/UK. If permanent US citizenship is your goal it is tough, but that is true even for Indian techies. This does not stop techies from going to US and should not stop you from working in a US firm or following your dreams. Some people don't need very long visas or even citizenship. They just want to migrate for a few years and come back and join Indian firms or other positions. Or go to US and later to EU or Singapore etc. This is very much doable, so that option is open as well. And I would say what's the risk. If you got your finances covered do your masters in US. If it works there great. If it doesn't, come back to India. You already have four years of experience and will surely be employable. So both the pros and cons are in front of you. Best of luck!
Thanks a lot for this detailed reply. Had a related question. Generally, are US LLMs considered more valuable (in terms of employability) vs UK?
I understand that a. As pointed out repeatedly no LLMs are great in terms of employability but like you’ve said it’s not a zero chance situation; and b. Which uni makes a big difference (ie an Oxford degree is possibly way more useful than any random mid tier US llm) - but assuming same ranking or thereabouts broadly in the respective countries, let’s say good schools but not necessarily ivy leagues like LSE, NYU etc. Are US degrees still more useful in enhancing employability outside India?
LLM from India has zero industry value in India or in abroad. But LLM from US is not that bad. If doing LLM from abroad and wanting a job in US then only Ivy level will give you somewhat decent chance there.
However if you come back to India you will still earn respect if you are a Harvard/Oxford grad, but just that degree will not necessary be an employment factor. However coupled with a decent work experience and a good NLU BA LLB degree, a Harvard/Oxford LLM will definitely give you an advantage in India too.
[...] he is joining as an associate, or whether this is yet another internship[?]. If it is the former, my congratulations to him for joining a firm with less than 10 lawyers at the moment. However, until there is some clarity on this, I would desist from reading too much into this new 'development'. Also, you can only work for a year post your graduation in the US after which you would require an H1B, for which you have less than a one-third chance as of date. Asking someone to just 'go for their dreams' in these situations can be highly irresponsible and is setting oneself up for disappointment down the road.
I agree. This advice given above to just go for your dreams is irresponsible. While so many mentors are available, the problem becomes separating good advice from bad. Lots of people in the garb of optimism and encouragement give really terrible advice. Some people then end up being (financially) scarred for life and are caught in an endless loop of debt, EMIs and paying interest. Foreign universities are laughing all the way to the bank. Their P&Ls have been growing in the last decades or so thanks to Indian and Chinese masters students. It's a great business and even new entrants can find students.
thank you for such a positive reply. i am planning for my LLM program from the US. i am very much tensed. was almost destroyed by the negative comments on the internet. gathering some courage to move my application after going through your reply
Which state are they working in? A number of state bar in US do require an US JD. Also, the immigration policy is an ever evolving one and US (despite the change in leadership) is slowly moving towards a closed economy when it comes to personnel, i.e. they are preferring locals to get jobs over foreigners/ migrants. An exception to this is ofcourse highly skilled tech workers whose substitutes may not be available in US. However, law isn't in that category. Hence just because it could be done in the past, doesn't mean it could also work out in the present/ future.
Seconding this, have extended family in Canada with post grad degrees running convenience stores and barely getting by. Canada isn't quite like the US in terms of pay and QoL, and no one is hiring anyone at the moment, much less lawyers with a foreign qualification. Canadian companies don't do business with India as much as American companies do, so India desk dreams are far fetched.
Buddy, it's better to stay in India and try to improve the country. For a start the useless govt must create an Indian Judicial Service which young lawyers can enter like IAS and give IJS officer similar perks like IAS. We must all unite and demand that.
THIS IAS bullshit is most rampant in North India. They literally worship the post as if it is the SINGLE GREATEST EMPLOYMENT in India. Everything else is garbage. I am not against IAS, it is a great job, but I am against this blind worship. Due to this peer and parental pressure, you will not believe that people drop 10 years after their graduation just to prepare for this post which may be has like 100 vacancies per year. One of the reasons why govt of India wanted to lower the entrance age.
Please it’s got nothing to do with north india. Have seen enough South Indians in my time who suck up to IAS/IFS like there’s no tomorrow. Indians are subservient to power and / or money, doesn’t matter which State.
Beware!!!! A bird in hand is better than two in the bush.
Legal sector is basically same in other parts of the World [C-19 has been a depressive equalizer] Preference is given to people with LLB and a proficiency in local language.
Not to mention, issues like Racism are still associated against brown people with additional topping of Islamophobia on all brown people.
Post all the struggle, the Aspirant might only be able to achieve a mediocre life. High end dining at Venetian hotel would still be a 'midsummer night dream'.
If your goal is to migrate, you should migrate. Apply for a permanent residency and move. Why are you wasting your resources (time and money) on a degree which most likely will add nothing to your primary goal of migration? Food for thought.
Since we're on the topic of LLM from abroad. After I've done my PhD from India and worked as assistant professor for a few years with decent publication. Can I apply for an LLM in a specific subject abroad ? How viable is it for an academic career after having completed PhD ?
Yes, although it is harder because top universities like to reinvent people. You'll get new contacts and new ways of writing. You may become eligible for fellowships and think tank jobs also. But if you want a traditional academic job, you probably want a PhD recognised by wherever you are working. EU PhDs have limited value in the US, Australian PhDs have limited value in the EU and US etc so think of the job and the market you are targeting and plan accordingly.
Wish to give bar exam their (also wish to know how hard this is)
Brussels (Belgium)
Geneva (Swiz)
UK
Canada
US
Singapore
Australia
Dubai (GCC)
Any other?
South Sudan
Chad
Eritrea
Senegal
Afghanistan
Adv Muku's chambers in Chandigarh
If you want a good job with 90% certainty, do a JD from a top 5 law school in US. And pray that visa rules ease 3 years down the line.
Also, you need to learn Dutch / French for EU (preferably both) or Mandarin (Singapore) or Arabic (Dubai). Sure you will see some Indian lawyers working in these jurisdictions without these qualifications, but the success rate is very low of getting a job that way.
I am from NLS and my batchmates have done Masters in law from reputed universities and are now employed in foreign law firms. The only catch here probably is that you need to do masters from one of the prestigious US universities to catch the eye of the recruiters. One of my acquaintances is now having a stellar career in world bank thanks to his Harvard master. A lot of foreign BA LLB students come to USA every year to do masters. I am not saying all of them remain in USA, mostly go back to pursue academics, but there are examples of people landing proper legal/academic jobs in US and UK. In US, NY bar and California bar are the easier ones to pass.
Dubai and other Emirates are good for real estate. A lot of construction companies also hire in-house Indian lawyers. A friend from Khaitan migrated to one of these construction firms.
Another friend has cleared bar exam of France. I am forgetting where her LLM was from. She is probably going into academics.
Two friends from Nalsar had become lecturer. One in Bristol university the other is a faculty at Oxford. Will request OP to find out connections through/linked in google and find out about their journeys. You are definitely employable in foreign jurisdictions like US after completing masters there. It might not be a smooth sail, but definitely worth trying. Don't get disheartened by any negative posts.
Pick any five year period of NLS of your choice after 2005. Out of 400 lawyers, you won't find more than 8 (2%) employed by foreign law firms after their LLM (don't include those who went to London through the TC route - they got jobs from their vacation scheme not because of the LLM)
Do you even know which work visa is required for the US and what's are the H1B lottery odds like? Don't come crying here later.
Also read this: https://slate.com/business/2021/07/masters-degrees-debt-loans-worth-it.html
It's a generic article and doesn't talk about LLM in particular but my advice is that it equally applies to LLM.
Every single Linked-in profile of an Indian lawyer who is working abroad is a LITERAL evidence that you can successfully get hired in the US/elsewhere. A simple google will give you multiple in your face evidences that yes Indian lawyers are very much employable in the US and other places. If these people can work there so can OP. But yes the path to get there might be a bit tough. Just today I came across the news that Mohit Khubchandani, an India litigator for three years, got placed in a London law firm. Before that he was in 'several organs' of the United Nations. He is no TC candidate. Get your facts straight. TC is not the only option. Giving his example as it is as recent as today and also because it also shows that hard work can get you anywhere.
The slate link was shared by lot of lawyers on linkedin. None of whom had a Harvard/Stanford degree (yes bite it, elite law schools help your career) and what is surprising is like Alias pointed out that the link itself does not talk about law at all. The truth is law and allied fields are highly employable in the US and EU. Forget law firms, you can make careers in United Nations, World Bank and other international bodies or In-house roles. Get enrolled in the eligible US bar and do clerkship or join a small/big firm office. Hell people have gone to become lecturers. It is easy to solve your visa woes once you are in a respectable. high earning and giving back to the society type roles.
So yeah I would like to say to OP that yes it is possible to get recruited in the US/UK. If permanent US citizenship is your goal it is tough, but that is true even for Indian techies. This does not stop techies from going to US and should not stop you from working in a US firm or following your dreams. Some people don't need very long visas or even citizenship. They just want to migrate for a few years and come back and join Indian firms or other positions. Or go to US and later to EU or Singapore etc. This is very much doable, so that option is open as well. And I would say what's the risk. If you got your finances covered do your masters in US. If it works there great. If it doesn't, come back to India. You already have four years of experience and will surely be employable. So both the pros and cons are in front of you. Best of luck!
I understand that a. As pointed out repeatedly no LLMs are great in terms of employability but like you’ve said it’s not a zero chance situation; and b. Which uni makes a big difference (ie an Oxford degree is possibly way more useful than any random mid tier US llm) - but assuming same ranking or thereabouts broadly in the respective countries, let’s say good schools but not necessarily ivy leagues like LSE, NYU etc. Are US degrees still more useful in enhancing employability outside India?
However if you come back to India you will still earn respect if you are a Harvard/Oxford grad, but just that degree will not necessary be an employment factor. However coupled with a decent work experience and a good NLU BA LLB degree, a Harvard/Oxford LLM will definitely give you an advantage in India too.
Easy to migrate (really easy) and work.
But opportunities are less and pay is shit. (in relative terms) . Work Life is better. You can live a happy mediocre life.
Your BA LLB can be converted if you pass the law society tests AKA NCA Exams.
Beware!!!! A bird in hand is better than two in the bush.
Legal sector is basically same in other parts of the World [C-19 has been a depressive equalizer]
Preference is given to people with LLB and a proficiency in local language.
Not to mention, issues like Racism are still associated against brown people with additional topping of Islamophobia on all brown people.
Post all the struggle, the Aspirant might only be able to achieve a mediocre life.
High end dining at Venetian hotel would still be a 'midsummer night dream'.
Why are you wasting your resources (time and money) on a degree which most likely will add nothing to your primary goal of migration? Food for thought.