Everyone goes ga ga over the IIT/IIM tag, but no so much the NLU tag, even Bengaluru. Why is it so? I am talking about the ordinary public/media/politicians, not the legal crowd. Could it be that NLUs don't have INI status and a unified "NLU" tag, instead being known as NALSAR, NLUJ etc? Or could it be this law is not yet considered prestigious in India?
Because the NLUs aren't enough of a 'pressure cooker'. Hence they lack the Prestige tag. Happy? If you are seeking public adulation, maybe you should try for the movies. Or Cricket.
Law is not as popular in India as engineering and management. To give an example from my own school: around 600 students graduate every year out of which only 10-20 would appear for CLAT, which is puny compared to the 400-450 kids who would sit for JEE.
A thought is that even Jio University, Jindal Global University and others would be on the same footing but NLUs would lag behind unless they give us proper funding
Because NLUs don't deserve it. It is like creating an elitist and downsizing the other better law college as well. Just the hullaballo of TAG name of IITA has manipulated the image of engineers in the society. This generalisation of a engineer from IIT is always better than any other engineer from any other college has created more ruins than the benefit of creating this "IIT" Image. Many people don't get the equal and similar opportunities as AN IITIAN would have.
Even in law firms the disparaging and differential treatment a Law student from NLU and non-NLU receive is so demeaning and ridiculous. Right from every stage of your career. Yes, their are few good humans who comes from this background who knows the value of merit and have nopreconceived notions. But mostly even high up the ladder have been manipulated to think the other way. So I think it's time we get away with such TAGS. The tags of giving someone additional importance other than what they inherently carry.
IIT JEE candidates: 2.2 million in stage 1, lowered to 161,319 in stage 2. Total IITs: 23 IIM CAT candidates: 244,000. Total IIMs: 20 CLAT: 60,000. Total NLUs: 23
CLAT has to reach at least 75% of the IIM CAT numbers to be taken seriously by the public.
If law is not prestigious, then why was JGLS given Institution of Eminence status? Even JNU and TISS (which are humanities-based) are considered prestigious. If you have good infra, good faculty and stable funding then the college will automatically do well.
While there are many reasons for this, depending on whose perspective is being sought, I'll stick to the most common one- the perception of the masses. An university becomes prestigious on the basis of how much the average person would desire to attend it. In a poor country like ours, this in turn is massively influenced by the potential economic benefits of attending the said university. Students/ parents are aware (and most rightfully so) that attending an IIT//IIM is a guarantee to economic liberty for the individual/ family [this is more so for IITs, the masses may not be as aware about IIMs]. Hence the massive desire to attend them and the corresponding prestige. NLUs simply don't provide the same economic opportunities, hence they don't attract the same attention.
This perception might not be entirely accurate. Good as the IITs are, they do not offer any job to a graduate within the country with the same pay scale as that of the tier one law firms. Foreign jobs pay more of course, but those are still offered to only a small percentage of grads. IIMs are different, but that is a post-graduate option anyway.
try getting what quadratic equations even are leave alone the complexity. anyone with normal IQ can learn what happens when a pet dog bites and kills a neighbor.
That's ridiculous. By your logic, engineers shouldn't require lawyers at all, because they should be able to figure out all the laws by themselves, ranging from the contracts that they enter into to the suits that they get embroiled in.
It's not that engineers can't figure out the laws, they've better things to- actually developing the product/ services, so they may leave aside the clerical paper pushing to lawyers.
You sound more juvenile than ever. Every professional degree has got an opportunity cost. Lawyers study LLB at the expense of the BTech, engineers do it the other way around. Claiming that even 10% of the lakhs of engineer grads coming out of the colleges every year end up making path breaking contributions is delusional, just as is claiming that 90% of the lawyers end up upholding the ideals of truth, justice, and kidney pie. People get over the compulsion to compare professions and deem one superior over another by the time that they are in their tenth grade. Clearly, commentators here are an exception.
Do you think he may know what an opportunity cost is in the first place? He is an engineer, they don't do econ. (it's a weak argument but on the lines of comment 9.) We as lawyers don't just learn torts (dog bites) but delve into a plethora of subjects. If you are from a Top NLUs you might see kids learning not just the acad. subjects but code as well. It's true that we cannot comprehend the education in IITs is because of the facts we never delved into the same (opportunity cost). I was nailing Math and Science Olympiads for a decade and everyone had pegged me for IITs but I ended up giving CLAT. Not like that, we don't have the mental faculty to understand your arena, we preferred something else altogether champ.
People like you grow up to be parents who think that if their children aren't opting for science or giving JEE, then they can't possibly be doing anything worthwhile in life.
Yeah, as if every engineer sits in a cabin and thinks about building skyscrapers. An average engineer is no better than an average lawyer. Sure there maybe some exceptional engineers , but there are some exceptional lawyers too. Yes maybe, top engineers have created corporations worth billions, but then the first PM of our nation and the co founder of the current ruling party are also lawyers. Many ministers have been lawyers. 25 of the 44 US presidents have been lawyers. Yours and comment 9 have just turned this thread about a trivial topic like popularity of institutions into a conflict between professions. Perhaps if you have participated in some debates and alike then you would have realized what and what not to say in a public forum dedicated to towards the profession law. But don't worry , law education is not that rigid, apply for a 3 yr course of LLB and you may learn something worthy of interest. Engineering will propel us towards a bright future, but it is law that will help us maintain it.
My friend who works at TCS for a salary that’s less than what I pay for my car would definitely agree with you that he’s making pathbreaking inventions everyday. He’s not even allowed to bring a pendrive to the office, can’t take a pee break without the permission of his manager. Nothing against what engineers get paid, they are highly underpaid I agree, but most of them just punch lines of codes that does the same redundant thing for the last 5-6 years. This is what 99% of engineers graduating in India are doing for their job. If you think that it’s a highly creative and skill-intensive job, there are still millions of them coming into the market every year and being treated like commodities and getting recruited by the dozen. I’m glad I get to work on paper and go pee as and when I please.
Is your friend an IITian? This post is not about the lakhs of engineering graduates from elsewhere, its specific to the IITians. Learn to comprehend better.
All I can tell you is that he’s from an institute for which many people leave mid-tier IITs. Hint-dilli. See, you have to understand, this gentleman has a negative outlook towards lawyers and is unduly glorifying engineers. I just gave an idea as to what most engineers are doing in India. IITians are great people but most of them have made their names after going out of their fields and doing non-core stuff. And you would agree me that the percentage of lawyers from the graduating batch every year who do meaningful stuff is way higher than the same percentage for engineers. I’m still standing with my statement that engineers who stick to their field are just doing redundant work for rich tech-billionaires. Most of them have no say and can hired and fired easily because the population of engineers who are willing to sit in front a computer and punch code like robots in exchange for peanuts is in hundreds of thousands.
And you have to learn to read first, let alone comprehend stuff, I can’t see a single mention of any college in comment 9. He’s all about engineers vs lawyers. That’s what he’s getting.
Kids learn quadratic equations in 6th standard (at least in Maharashtra board when I studied). If you can't find roots of a simple QE as an adult professional, please send your kids to better school.
lawyers can't bring about civilizational advance, they can't create something out of nothing. they're banal paper pushers who take up ancillary roles. the society at large couldn't care less about law colleges.
Actually, people with legal training are perhaps the few who can actually create something out of nothing. It's known as rights. Sort of necessary for civilizational advance.
But no state/government wishes to support the creation and protection of rights!!! That is another reason (apart from many correctly already identified on this thread) that NLUs have no real support like IIMs/IITs.
A lot Because NLUs don't manage a fraction of the research output that the IITs have. NLUs are fundamentally nothing more than glorified degree colleges with really smart students. These students manage to get good jobs for a variety of reasons and that is largely the only thing on which the prestige of NLUs rests on. IITs/IIMs offer much more academic engagement - their faculty does a substantial amount of serious academic research, thus earning more international attention and standing. For very similar reasons JNU also has a much higher standing in the world of universities than NLUs. Just compare the faculty profile of NLUs with that of IIT/IIMs and we see the staggering difference.
If the students are that smart, then why are they getting stuck in these 'glorified degree colleges'? As for your point about good faculty/research, give the NLUs the same funding that the IITs get and then let us see. Talent flows to where it gets rewarded. Further, to reduce teaching load of faculty so that they can do research, NLUs need to hire many more faculty, which again in turn requires money. See how places like NLUD that are better known among the NLUs for their research output get way more funding than many of their brethren.
What are we using the term "NLUs", as if NLSIU is comparable with NLU Shimla or NLU Ranchi? It's better to assess each NLU on its merits. While most people wouldn't turn down IIT Delhi or Bombay for NLSIU, many might turn down tier 2 IITs like Madras, Kharagpur and Kanpur for NLSIU, because NLSIU has a superior brand value and the pay scales are generally better than that offered to tier 2 IIT toppers. Similarly, many might turn down tier 3 IITs like Guwahati and Hyderabad for NALSAR, tier 4 IITs like Ranchi and Mandi for NLUD etc. So the correct thing to say would be:
1. NLSIU has the prestige and pay scale of a tier 2 IIT like Madras, Kharagpur and Kanpur 2. NALSAR has the prestige and pay scale of a tier 3 IIT like Guwahati and Hyderabad 3. NLUD has the prestige and pay scale of a tier 4 IIT like Ranchi, Mandi, Bhubaneshwar and all the rest.
I can't see NLSIU ever overtaking IIT Delhi and Bombay, so the mission of NALSAR and NLUD has to be to reach the prestige and pay scale of IIT Madras, Kharagpur and Kanpur. In terms of pay scale, they are probably already there, but the prestige factor is a bit low as they are younger to NLSIU.
I assume you're joking when you call IIT KGP, Madras and Kanpur as "Tier 2"? Do you know that in South India (which covers a quarter of India), most people target IIT Madras over the Delhis and Mumbais? As for KGP, if I have to explain that to you, you're clearly clueless.
(leaving aside the puerile argument about "prestige" and NLUs, which is clearly defined by who you talk to)
It would be best if NLUs are absorbed into the respective IIT or IIM in their city. This will really enhance the brand value of the NLU and also ensure central funding. Rather than a bill giving INI status to NLUs, what is needed is a bill merging NLUs into IIT and IIM. It will look like this:
1. NLSIU ---> IIM Bengaluru Faculty of Law 2 NALSAR ----> IIT Hyderabad Faculty of Law 3. NUJS ----> IIM Kolkata Faculty of Law 4. NLUD ----> IIT Delhi Faculty of Law 5. NLUJ --- >IIT Jodhpur Faculty of Law 6. NLIU --> Nothing in Bhopal, so status quo 7. GNLU --> IIT Gandhinagar Faculty of Law 8. MNLU - M ---> IIT Mumbai Faculty of Law 9. RMLNLU ---> IIM Lucknow Faculty of Law 10. RGNUL ----> Nothing in Patiala, so status quo 11. HNLU ---> IIM Raipur Faculty of Law 12. NLUO --- > IIM Cuttack Faculty of Law etc etc etc
dude no, that will make MNLU-M far more prestigious and Hyderabad and Jodhpur may lose their shine. There are different ranks for NLUs and this will skew it. The professors, the opportunities and the students opting for the said will be a chaos
Is the LI moderator on acid? How is this comment trollish? NIT Trichy and NIT Surathkal are very respected engineering colleges ranked 9 and 13 in NIRF respectively, over half the IITs!! Many people choose NITs over IITs if you don't get the stream of your choice (especially CS). More people in India have heard of the NIT brand than NLU brand.
Just shows the arrogance of the NLU community that this comment is marked trollish.
Fair enough, we've marked the post as not trollish for now (though many of these ranking-type posts of ranking this above that often seem to be slightly trollish in intent, hence the perhaps over-heavy moderation)
Bruh, the NID Ahmedabad is as prestigious as it gets for design. The Schools of Planning and Architecture as well. They would be perceived as way more prestigious to the general public than any NLU, including Law School.
Try asking a random neighbour whether they have heard of NID or NLSIU, or the Delhi SPA or NLSIU, and you will get your answer.
Coming from someone who appeared for the exams of all three, the NID DAT, JEE-II (Architecture) and CLAT.
Because law firms, and lawyers generally are not the most consumer facing industry and are not as popular job wise as engineers.
Litigation lawyers are hired reluctantly in bad situations by the majority. And law firms work for companies - and thus don't generally serve the middle class which reveres the IITs. That's definitely a factor.
The same can be said about IIMs. IMO, the factor that separates IIT, IIM and NLUs is the number of foreign jobs. IITs and IIMs make headlines with 2Cr+ foreign packages while NLUs can only showcase a couple of TCs with 55LPA Packages.
Maybe because Science is still considered supreme than humanities, hence the career choices. Moreover, Lawyers (even corporate) dont earn as much as engineers.
Lol only the toppers from the CSE batch of top IITs make it to Google etc and get packages north of 1Cr. An average student at a T-1 NLU earns more than an average kid passing out of IITs.
It is like creating an elitist and downsizing the other better law college as well.
Just the hullaballo of TAG name of IITA has manipulated the image of engineers in the society. This generalisation of a engineer from IIT is always better than any other engineer from any other college has created more ruins than the benefit of creating this "IIT" Image. Many people don't get the equal and similar opportunities as AN IITIAN would have.
Even in law firms the disparaging and differential treatment a Law student from NLU and non-NLU receive is so demeaning and ridiculous. Right from every stage of your career. Yes, their are few good humans who comes from this background who knows the value of merit and have nopreconceived notions. But mostly even high up the ladder have been manipulated to think the other way.
So I think it's time we get away with such TAGS. The tags of giving someone additional importance other than what they inherently carry.
IIM CAT candidates: 244,000. Total IIMs: 20
CLAT: 60,000. Total NLUs: 23
CLAT has to reach at least 75% of the IIM CAT numbers to be taken seriously by the public.
anyone with normal IQ can learn what happens when a pet dog bites and kills a neighbor.
Yours and comment 9 have just turned this thread about a trivial topic like popularity of institutions into a conflict between professions. Perhaps if you have participated in some debates and alike then you would have realized what and what not to say in a public forum dedicated to towards the profession law. But don't worry , law education is not that rigid, apply for a 3 yr course of LLB and you may learn something worthy of interest.
Engineering will propel us towards a bright future, but it is law that will help us maintain it.
#fromJEEtopee
1. NLSIU has the prestige and pay scale of a tier 2 IIT like Madras, Kharagpur and Kanpur
2. NALSAR has the prestige and pay scale of a tier 3 IIT like Guwahati and Hyderabad
3. NLUD has the prestige and pay scale of a tier 4 IIT like Ranchi, Mandi, Bhubaneshwar and all the rest.
I can't see NLSIU ever overtaking IIT Delhi and Bombay, so the mission of NALSAR and NLUD has to be to reach the prestige and pay scale of IIT Madras, Kharagpur and Kanpur. In terms of pay scale, they are probably already there, but the prestige factor is a bit low as they are younger to NLSIU.
(leaving aside the puerile argument about "prestige" and NLUs, which is clearly defined by who you talk to)
1. NLSIU ---> IIM Bengaluru Faculty of Law
2 NALSAR ----> IIT Hyderabad Faculty of Law
3. NUJS ----> IIM Kolkata Faculty of Law
4. NLUD ----> IIT Delhi Faculty of Law
5. NLUJ --- >IIT Jodhpur Faculty of Law
6. NLIU --> Nothing in Bhopal, so status quo
7. GNLU --> IIT Gandhinagar Faculty of Law
8. MNLU - M ---> IIT Mumbai Faculty of Law
9. RMLNLU ---> IIM Lucknow Faculty of Law
10. RGNUL ----> Nothing in Patiala, so status quo
11. HNLU ---> IIM Raipur Faculty of Law
12. NLUO --- > IIM Cuttack Faculty of Law
etc etc etc
1. IIT
2.AIIMS
3. IIM
4. NLU
5. NIT
6. NID
7. NIFT
So NLUs are not doing that badly.
Just shows the arrogance of the NLU community that this comment is marked trollish.
Try asking a random neighbour whether they have heard of NID or NLSIU, or the Delhi SPA or NLSIU, and you will get your answer.
Coming from someone who appeared for the exams of all three, the NID DAT, JEE-II (Architecture) and CLAT.
Litigation lawyers are hired reluctantly in bad situations by the majority. And law firms work for companies - and thus don't generally serve the middle class which reveres the IITs. That's definitely a factor.