Tier 1 NLUs and JGLS must unite to get the end semester exams cancelled. The second wave is mentally depressing. Most of us anyways never had enough resources to attend the classes and complete these assessments. Law schools have held no regard for our failing mental health and grades, most of us are simply not made for the online semester. All law schools must unite and ask for a cancellation of end semester exams.
Absolutely, but it should be kept an NLU-only initiative and JGLS should not be invited. It will undermine the effort to create a pan-india NLU identity. It is also not correct to include JGLS because their students are from very wealthy backgrounds and do not face the same struggles like NLU students from middle-class and poor backgrounds. It will actually weaken the demands.
Yes yes All the work of students from T1 law schools must be given to T2 and T3 law school students. This pandemic is causing a great damage to T1 students. They are not getting time to boast enough that they are from T1 colleges. I'm sure that if BCI is reading this (afterall BCI reads chats fron LI to take policy decisions), all the workload of T1 law colleges must be passed on to T2 & T3 law schools. Hats off to Guest (1).
The amount of workload and the stringent checking guidelines of the professors goes up in the tier 1's, and yes, it is more difficult to cope. The workload is highest for the top few nlu's, there is no argument there. You can boohoo and say that T1's have it better because they can boast, but we have crazy work schedules too buddy.
What's the logic of mental stress applying to only Tier 1 NLUs?
Afaik, NLU D and Jindal have been sensitive, gave one week mental health breaks.
Here at NALSAR, things are very flexible. Faizan and Pathakji (new acad dean) though initially pressed on hard deadlines, when things went south, gave extensions to everyone with covid in their family. Need to complete course requirements but if we miss out now, we can give repeats as first attempts.
NUJS has 6-7 hour exams, enough to collaborate.
My peers at NLS tell that they haven't received respite - but please give a clearer picture in replies.
It's the non tier 1 NLUs students which have been bogged with assignments, deadlines, workload. Be empathetic and make these demands to your uni admin or at least have the basic courtesy to address this to the entire student fraternity.
Apart from the 6-7 hour long open book exams without proctoring, NUJS also has given more or less a free reign to the students with regard to submission of internal assessments, viva etc. There are notional deadlines, but no penalty if those aren't adhered to. So long as the student turns in the work eventually before the next semester starts, it would be evaluated. That actually helps when you are trying to cope with stress and anxiety. Attendance rules have been completely relaxed too.
No respite at all. Everything's going on as usual, and our VC plans to open physical classes in July if students get vaccinated. I'm not sure how this is going to happen because A. It's doubtful that everyone can get both doses of the vaccine in 2 months, and B. It's still not confirmed if these vaccines can treat the new strains.
You should try to lodge a protest if his actions are becoming so intolerable to you. After all, you all protested to get him in. Would be quite ironical though. If you fail to protest, then it would mean that your version of events doesn't really enjoy widespread support among the students, and the majority actually support Sudhir.
@Legallyindia you need to post a page regarding this issue rather than this conversation thread! Use twitter and other law pages as well to promote this issue. I can personally tell u that COVID has spread to every other household and many apartment complexes including ours have banned domestic helpers and other outsiders from entering. With family members coping with COVID the asymptomatic/unaffected memebers have to manage the situation at homes! In such a situation how do lawschools expect students to meet deadlines and prepare for end sems!? I hope LI admin takes this into consideration. It's finally time to use the clout established by you, to help students at this moment. NLUD has already extended the mid-sem break for their entire LL.B. batch (1st to 5th year), it's time other NLUs and colleges did the same!
Surprisingly, our admin has been extremely supportive and has actually granted us an extension of 1 week break from online classes, however the situation is extremely horrible, a lot of students are facing issues coping up with academic rigour of law school due to mental health and physical health issues, also some students also play the role of Teacher’s Pet and try to glorify pushing oneself to the edge, if anything the least that could be done is to ensure that the exams while being taken are not as stressful as they are in usual circumstances.
Not sure why 1.1 is marked trollish. Rich students are not in the same boat as ordinary students. Rich students do not have problems like:
- access to computers ( in ordinary families 4 people share a computer, not so in rich families) - internet connectivity (ordinary families do not have multiple connections, rich families have many; also, in small towns and rural areas speed is always bad) - mental health issues arising from wealth inequality (in ordinary families there is a lot of financial strain right now, not so in rich families) - certain English language issues (for students from vernacular backgrounds they need to have access to persons who can help, which is not possible now--- not an issue for rich students from elite English-medium schools)
JGLS students may have problems but they are very minor compared to NLU students.
Hi, we do have students on scholarships and students from IDIA. We have a separate scholarship for socially backwards students.
I realise where you’re coming from and acknowledge the privilege that a lot of students in JGU enjoy. But kindly don’t generalise it, I consider myself to be really underprivileged in a monetary sense and I don’t have a laptop. And although I don’t hold a responsibility to prove the same, if you’re not rude or disrespectful to me or my struggle in the subsequent comment, I’ll go out of my way to provide evidence for the same.
Moreover, I agree to you that Jindal is the national face of privilege. But legal education in India itself is an entire representation of privilege and nepotism. Jindal being the flag bearer, NLU’s can’t absolve them of any accountability either. 2-2.5-3 is not something a middle class or underprivileged guy would be able to pay. The fee structure is 5-6 times of what a person would pay in a government university in a different field. A lot of kids, I know in NLUs are super rich and could have easily afforded Jindal. Not to mention the infamous NRI quota in most of the NLUs. CLAT and AILET alongside LSAT have only acted as a catalyst to the promoting privilege. Justice Chandrachud pointed out the same (https://www.livelaw.in/top-stories/discrimination-law-schools-clat-justice-chandrachud-blind-students-172626) AILET has the toughest english tests, I have witnessed in a legal examination. I am not defending Jindal here, I’ll reiterate Jindal is the flagbearer of privilege in law schools and NLUs are marching right behind it. Please don’t absolve NLUs of the privilege that students there enjoy.
Moreover we are going through the same pandemic as you are. Jindal is not immune to mental health issues. A lot of people I know are going through major financial crisis. We’ve had students earlier who’ve resorted to suicide and other methods of self harm. I’ve lost three of my batchmates ever since we started https://indianexpress.com/article/india/student-hangs-himself-in-jindal-university-hostel-room-6025963/. I have lost two of my batchmates to COVID and I can’t express how many friends have lost their family members. Do you think we are immune to mental health issues?
I think we’re all bigger than this. Please don’t exclude us for we are going through the same pandemic as you are. I really urge that all law schools stand in solidarity and get relief for ourselves. There’s no point of fighting amongst each other. If we stick together, we might as well achieve something. I urge @legallyindia to please report this topic as a proper news article. I request for solidarity among all law schools so we are not made to go through more than what we are already going through. The original post calls for tier 1 and jgls only, which is sad. I request that all law schools, regardless of what rankings the society has allotted to them, stand together in solidarity against academic pressure that everyone is being subjected to.
If you have not attended the classes and learnt enough to be able to clear the exams and assessments, then it stands to reason that you should not be promoted to the next year, right? You need to be taught all those same subjects once again and as many times as it takes for you to learn those well enough. Not being able to cope with the workload is a valid cause. However, that does not mean that you should be allowed to enjoy the fruits of labour when you have not been in a position to put in the labour for whatever reason.
That's not the labour the fruit of which you are asking for, 'bro'. You have got the opportunity to study at some of the most sought after institutes in the country, a stellar alumni base, and chances for being considered for internships and jobs that less fortunate students never get, in exchange for clearing CLAT. What you are now being asked to do is to prove that you are competent enough to have completed part of your training, for which you are supposed to get the grades and other recognition that comes along with it, 'bro'. And if you can't understand that, then you are definitely not keeping up with your education, 'bro'. By taking it easy, if you are saying the university should promote you without testing you in the process, then you are not really worthy of studying at these places, 'bro'. You want to take it easy, take a gap year and resume your studies later.
Respectfully, you have no idea what we mean when we're asking the admin to take it easy. Broseph. The entire batch has great GPAs, we're not asking the uni to promote us without testing us. The admin doesn't even have the time of day to respond to our collective student body emails
That's certainly bad and should be protested against. I have got no problems with students doing that. Administration should definitely engage with the students, and come up with reasonable policies, and convey the same to the stakeholders clearly and promptly. However, the mindset that you have finished your labour with regard to education by clearing CLAT is a dangerous one, and I do have a problem with that, since that inevitably leads to gross entitlement issues.
All academic activities have just been suspended as of today. Bro. We are about to do the unthinkable, 'take it easy'. Even if doing so makes us unworthy(trash logic btw)
It is so insensitive at this point to say that University should not promote students and compulsorily conduct end term exams. Tell this to Students who lost their family members, their parents, and countless who are struggling at hospitals for medicines and oxygen cylinders. Tell this to countless students who are stuck at home since March 2020 and are going through severe mental health issues such as Depression, Anxiety, etc. Tell this to those students who battled Covid19 and barely survived. Universities always conduct examinations but desperate times call for desperate measures. It is not as if these students who are demanding cancelation of exams don't "want" to give exams but it is because they "can't ". Those who can Congratulations that you are physically and mentally so strong but the Universities have to take into consideration average students. Moreover, Internal Evaluations have been conducted, it is not as if students are promoted for free. Being a good student means nothing if one lacks basic humanity and empathy to understand the gravity of the current situation. We have all cleared exams since childood and then got promoted. Every student irrespective of the Law school, Cleared exams to get promoted. If for once we get promoted on the basis of Internal examinations due to the absolute chaos we are living in today and if for once our welfare is put above the professionalism and rules, this world would not end and we would not become incompetent students. This is a matter of showing humanity, understanding and welfare of students who have gone through and are going through sufferings and pain.
All very good words. Tell me something though, how exactly is a university certifying you that you have reached an acceptable level of legal knowledge to be promoted to a higher class, without you showing zero evidence of that, ethically acceptable either? You can't demand an educational qualification on the basis of humanity. Going by that, if a student suffers from a personal tragedy even during non COVID times, why can't the student make the same demand? You can ask for postponement of exams, qualified tentative promotion based on results later in good faith. But the universities know very well that the moment they allow that, any student who fails the exam later would litigate claiming that after having studied in the senior year for the better part of a year, they should not be asked to go back because it would hurt their career and mental health and what else. This has even happened at more than one NLU that I'm aware of. Asking for a degree of humanitarian grounds is not ethical. You can ask for fee reduction, relaxed exam pattern, gaps between exams, internal component based evaluation, attendance exemption, project extension, and other welfare measures. But the moment you demand that all the students should be promoted without any evaluation because they are suffering from COVID, then you are no longer dealing in good faith.
If passing Internal Examination is zero evidence then why are Internal examinations even conducted? There is weightage for Internals and it does portray that the student has "legal knowledge" Covid times cannot be compared to Non Covid times. Clearing one semester on the basis of Internal Exam does not mean that the Entire degree has been awarded to the student on humanitarian grounds. In a 5 year course of Integrated Law Degree there are 10 semesters. Amidst a global Pandemic which has left people and Students devasted in countless ways promoting students on the basis of Internal in one semester will not make the students incompetent. Moreover, there are many students who cannot even appear for online exams owing to their own limitations of Financial issues or other issues. Internal Examinations carry enough weightage in every Law School to determine that the students have legal knowledge and are not clueless about the Subjects.
@SA123: Frankly, it seems to me that clearing those internal exams hasn't done you much good. As a law student, the least that you can do is to read a comment carefully before starting to draft a page long reply to it. The person above clearly mentioned that he is in favour of law schools using internal or other alternative means of evaluation instead of end semester examination. You should focus on the details more, would help you in future.
Well I request you to first read the entire thread properly before making rude personal comments. The concerned "person above" has not even mentioned Internal Exams anywhere. I had mentioned in my first comment itself that Internal assessments that have been completed beforehand can be used for promoting students and no Assessments should be conducted at this time. I wrote "Internal Evaluations have been conducted, it is not as if students are promoted for free" And Then the concerned "person above" wrote the following at the end of their long reply "But the moment you demand that all the students should be promoted without any evaluation because they are suffering from COVID, then you are no longer dealing in good faith." I never said that without any evaluation students should be promoted. I clearly mentioned twice that Internal Examinations should be used while end term or the external exams should be cancelled. So I hope you understand who did not read the comment. And you are here questioning me that I did not read.
Comment 1.3.1.A.3.a mentioned "Internal component based evaluation" among other options. If you can't understand that it is the same as "internal examination", whatever that means, since all the NLUs and private universities hold internal examinations only, then that's your lack of comprehension at work, not anyone else's.
Before Comment 1.3.1.A.3.a, was my comment 1.3.1.A.3. in which I wrote "Internal Evaluations have been conducted, it is not as if students are promoted for free" I have also mentioned clearly in Comment 1.3.1.A.3.a.1.1.1 what I said in the thread and yet you choose to ignore it so do that happily. Read comment 1.3.1.A.3 before jumping on to the next one. One didn't have to write a long comment if they had agreed with what I said regarding Internals. But the person wrote the comment and at the end wrote "But the moment you demand that all the students should be promoted without any evaluation because they are suffering from COVID, then you are no longer dealing in good faith" AS IF I am saying that no Evaluations should be conducted. Kindly have patience and read properly before giving out suggestions to other people when it is you who lacks comprehension skills. And if you don't want to read your choice but stop being disrespectful to people and learn to Argue in a decent manner without trying to put down the other person. Peace.
It is of much less a concern for NLUs and JGLS I would have thought, compared to traditional universities. Not the mental health problem, that's there everywhere in different guises, as has been mentioned above. However, the places that I mentioned would have the necessary flexibility to provide waivers/extensions on their own without having to be directly answerable to higher authorities, unlike the traditional universities adhering to common syllabus and evaluation pattern. Not sure why inter-institutional solidarity would be needed to influence the NLUs or JGLS in that way. It's more between their student bodies and their respective administrations. Of course, presenting a common front doesn't hurt a cause. For traditional universities however, popular consensus and pressure need to be built.
I believe that inter institutional solidarity is extremely necessary, I’ll tell you why. Some administrations have displayed concerns for students during the pandemic. The bar council has mandated a certain form of assessment criteria and this is extremely rigorous. Even during the pandemic, bar council has not allowed for a flexible assessment scheme to incorporate mental health and accessibility concerns. Which is why we need inter institutional solidarity among NLUs, private universities and traditional universities. Even if a university administration wants to provide relief, they are mainly bound by the stringent rules of bar council. Hence, if the multiple student councils and student bodies unite against these rules and a provisional flexibility is provided then it could be of a lot of help for a lot of people. Universities singularly protesting against the might bar council might not actually help
NLUs have always paid lip service only to the BCI rules and BCI also rarely bothers them about it. JGLS' is an IOE and enjoys official flexibility. Any BCI regulation that's being cited by any NLU authority to deny relief to students is therefore merely a paper shield that the admin is trying to hide behind.
This is the correct approach and the students must understand that their degrees, curriculum, examinations are controlled by the BCI. But, no body is thinking to approach the BCI.
BCI issued notices regarding conduct of examinations on June 9, 2020 and November 1 2020 during the First wave of Covid-19. But for the last seven months or since second wave started just before the examination time, BCI has not considered the matter of examinations. Why the doors of BCI have not been knocked by the students.? All the admins know that violation of BCI rules may result in the forfeiture of recognition and imposition of penalty. A great risk for admins.
All the work of students from T1 law schools must be given to T2 and T3 law school students. This pandemic is causing a great damage to T1 students. They are not getting time to boast enough that they are from T1 colleges. I'm sure that if BCI is reading this (afterall BCI reads chats fron LI to take policy decisions), all the workload of T1 law colleges must be passed on to T2 & T3 law schools.
Hats off to Guest (1).
You can boohoo and say that T1's have it better because they can boast, but we have crazy work schedules too buddy.
Buddy, aur bhi gham hai zamaane main ... JGLS ke upar utho.
Afaik, NLU D and Jindal have been sensitive, gave one week mental health breaks.
Here at NALSAR, things are very flexible. Faizan and Pathakji (new acad dean) though initially pressed on hard deadlines, when things went south, gave extensions to everyone with covid in their family. Need to complete course requirements but if we miss out now, we can give repeats as first attempts.
NUJS has 6-7 hour exams, enough to collaborate.
My peers at NLS tell that they haven't received respite - but please give a clearer picture in replies.
It's the non tier 1 NLUs students which have been bogged with assignments, deadlines, workload. Be empathetic and make these demands to your uni admin or at least have the basic courtesy to address this to the entire student fraternity.
Peace.
While they’re v v understanding
Not as chill as you’re portraying also
- access to computers ( in ordinary families 4 people share a computer, not so in rich families)
- internet connectivity (ordinary families do not have multiple connections, rich families have many; also, in small towns and rural areas speed is always bad)
- mental health issues arising from wealth inequality (in ordinary families there is a lot of financial strain right now, not so in rich families)
- certain English language issues (for students from vernacular backgrounds they need to have access to persons who can help, which is not possible now--- not an issue for rich students from elite English-medium schools)
JGLS students may have problems but they are very minor compared to NLU students.
Hi, we do have students on scholarships and students from IDIA. We have a separate scholarship for socially backwards students.
I realise where you’re coming from and acknowledge the privilege that a lot of students in JGU enjoy. But kindly don’t generalise it, I consider myself to be really underprivileged in a monetary sense and I don’t have a laptop. And although I don’t hold a responsibility to prove the same, if you’re not rude or disrespectful to me or my struggle in the subsequent comment, I’ll go out of my way to provide evidence for the same.
Moreover, I agree to you that Jindal is the national face of privilege. But legal education in India itself is an entire representation of privilege and nepotism. Jindal being the flag bearer, NLU’s can’t absolve them of any accountability either. 2-2.5-3 is not something a middle class or underprivileged guy would be able to pay. The fee structure is 5-6 times of what a person would pay in a government university in a different field. A lot of kids, I know in NLUs are super rich and could have easily afforded Jindal. Not to mention the infamous NRI quota in most of the NLUs. CLAT and AILET alongside LSAT have only acted as a catalyst to the promoting privilege. Justice Chandrachud pointed out the same (https://www.livelaw.in/top-stories/discrimination-law-schools-clat-justice-chandrachud-blind-students-172626) AILET has the toughest english tests, I have witnessed in a legal examination. I am not defending Jindal here, I’ll reiterate Jindal is the flagbearer of privilege in law schools and NLUs are marching right behind it. Please don’t absolve NLUs of the privilege that students there enjoy.
Moreover we are going through the same pandemic as you are. Jindal is not immune to mental health issues. A lot of people I know are going through major financial crisis. We’ve had students earlier who’ve resorted to suicide and other methods of self harm. I’ve lost three of my batchmates ever since we started https://indianexpress.com/article/india/student-hangs-himself-in-jindal-university-hostel-room-6025963/. I have lost two of my batchmates to COVID and I can’t express how many friends have lost their family members. Do you think we are immune to mental health issues?
I think we’re all bigger than this. Please don’t exclude us for we are going through the same pandemic as you are. I really urge that all law schools stand in solidarity and get relief for ourselves. There’s no point of fighting amongst each other. If we stick together, we might as well achieve something. I urge @legallyindia to please report this topic as a proper news article. I request for solidarity among all law schools so we are not made to go through more than what we are already going through. The original post calls for tier 1 and jgls only, which is sad. I request that all law schools, regardless of what rankings the society has allotted to them, stand together in solidarity against academic pressure that everyone is being subjected to.
Universities always conduct examinations but desperate times call for desperate measures. It is not as if these students who are demanding cancelation of exams don't "want" to give exams but it is because they "can't ". Those who can Congratulations that you are physically and mentally so strong but the Universities have to take into consideration average students. Moreover, Internal Evaluations have been conducted, it is not as if students are promoted for free. Being a good student means nothing if one lacks basic humanity and empathy to understand the gravity of the current situation. We have all cleared exams since childood and then got promoted. Every student irrespective of the Law school, Cleared exams to get promoted. If for once we get promoted on the basis of Internal examinations due to the absolute chaos we are living in today and if for once our welfare is put above the professionalism and rules, this world would not end and we would not become incompetent students. This is a matter of showing humanity, understanding and welfare of students who have gone through and are going through sufferings and pain.
I had mentioned in my first comment itself that Internal assessments that have been completed beforehand can be used for promoting students and no Assessments should be conducted at this time. I wrote "Internal Evaluations have been conducted, it is not as if students are promoted for free"
And Then the concerned "person above" wrote the following at the end of their long reply "But the moment you demand that all the students should be promoted without any evaluation because they are suffering from COVID, then you are no longer dealing in good faith."
I never said that without any evaluation students should be promoted. I clearly mentioned twice that Internal Examinations should be used while end term or the external exams should be cancelled.
So I hope you understand who did not read the comment. And you are here questioning me that I did not read.
One didn't have to write a long comment if they had agreed with what I said regarding Internals. But the person wrote the comment and at the end wrote "But the moment you demand that all the students should be promoted without any evaluation because they are suffering from COVID, then you are no longer dealing in good faith" AS IF I am saying that no Evaluations should be conducted.
Kindly have patience and read properly before giving out suggestions to other people when it is you who lacks comprehension skills.
And if you don't want to read your choice but stop being disrespectful to people and learn to Argue in a decent manner without trying to put down the other person.
Peace.