Three co-founding equity partners of PXV Law Partners, Deepto Roy, Mohit Abraham and GT Thomas Phillippe, are set to join Khaitan & Co as associate partners by 1 August, according to five authoritative sources from both firms and others with knowledge of the move.
Phillippe would join the Delhi corporate team, Abraham in Delhi litigation and Roy will be based in Mumbai specialising in infrastructure.
Khaitan & Co was not available for comment and PXV declined to comment when contacted.
PXV equity partner Pingal Khan is understood to be be starting a new firm with non-equity partner Souvik Bhadra in Kolkata, with PXV as a partnership and brand ceasing to exist.
Legally India could not confirm whether non-equity partner Anuj Sahay in Delhi would be joining Khaitan. Around half of the departing partners’ teams of roughly 15 associates are expected to be taken on by Khaitan after interviews.
PXV was started as RDA Legal, which was started in 2008 by Rohit Das and Pingal Khan, rebranding in 2011 as PXV with Philippe, Roy and Abraham becoming as equity partners. In 2012, PXV split over differences in vision, with Das separating back into RDA Legal and partner Arindam Pal in Kolkata splitting off into Augustus Law Chambers.
All of the erstwhile firm’s partners are graduates from NUJS Kolkata, with the three joining Khaitan all having graduated in 2005.
Abraham, who is an advocate-on-record, began his career at Amarchand, practising at the Supreme Court advocate from 2008 until joining PXV in 2010.
Roy also joined Amarchand after graduating in 2005, leaving in 2011 to join PXV.
Phillippe began his career at Trilegal, moving to AZB in 2008 and joining PXV in 2011.
Story updated with details of Pingal Khan and Souvik Bhadra’s start-up.
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Khaitan & Co. bought out PXV because of the quality and talent. RDA tried to merge with another law firm and it bombarded on its face badly because RDA is running in terrible losses and they have no clientele or work whereas PXV had retainers with some of the best companies and banks!!
Doing "GREAT"?? Why are some from Kolkata office moving out and joining other start ups? Where is the payment of current employees? They do not even have work right now...
"Outlasted"? No one really wants to be associated with RDA. He tried to merge with another firm started by his friend, even THAT did not work out!! Smart move by the other firm to not take on the liability of RDA.
I guess the present employers at rda need to give answers with respect to the unpaid salaries. Surojeet and rohit are answerable.
What does RD sit on?
Let it happen to you and you will sing a different tune!!
IDIOT.
This is the version even I got from my batchmate who has already finished her interview with KCO.
He will take PXV to new heights.
Vision? I think the vision of the MP of the then PXV was on some other person and it was an entire mess up in Delhi. RDA was hence told to separate to not cause an embarrassment to PXV because of internal "love"-hate relationship.. I think you do not even know any fact! "Vision" my a*s
Overall, this is rather sad though it is clear these guys will go on to do very well professionally. In its avatar as PXV, this was perhaps the most promising startup firm among the various outfits that have mushroomed almost every other month over the last couple of years and I really thought they were going to make it big on their own. Anyway, what I had personally thought of as THE most promising startup firm (Alliance) folded in 18 months.
PXV was one chance to vicariously experience the ups and downs of entrepreneurship without risking a penny or opportunity by reading about their splits, more splits and good deals. Hats off and thank you to you guys on behalf of LI comments authors and readers - some of us certainly will miss your existence as PXV. And now that the trolls are already here, let's have one last summerslam of PXV v. RDA fanboy flamewars!
1. Whatever spin this trio may provide, it is reasonably certain that their business was not working well. Even moderately sucessful owners will not sell their business and seek employment with the buyer. Not in a sector like law where overcoming the initial client getting hurdle is the biggest problem startups face.
2. Once again, having worked at big firms like AMSS (Deepto) and AZB (Philip), it is very unlikely they would want to once again join a firm of that type unless it was for reasons of financial security.
3. When it was known that they were starting their own firm general expectation was that either they would stick around to make a successful practice or they would sell out to a foreign firm (TTA/Trilegal model)or at the least a reputed Indian firm. Now KCO is not a synonym for lala dukan as it used to be but its still some way off from being an AMSS or an AZB. To sell out to KCO is like a successful Indian IT startup selling out to Satyam instead of Apple/Microsoft/Google.
4. Whatever be the reasons I predict it is only a matter of time before they leave KCO, maybe one by one or maybe together. Abraham and Philip are prolific job changers and after running their own firm it will be a bitter pill to swallow performance pressure from the Khaitans and Jhunjhunwalas no matter how sugar-coated it may be. Haigreve is not running a charity and at some stage will have to crack the whip.
Most likely it was a distress sale of a poor business and an attempt at getting some financial benefit for a while before moving on...
Quoting Guest:
LOL Yes. While there are big question marks over the professional competency of all the 'founders' other than Deepto Roy one thing everyone can agree on is that they have (with a little bit of help from Kian) made a distress sale sound fashionable!
I can't think of any other successful entrepreneur who sells his company and then becomes an employee of the buyer. I'm guessing that no amount of financial compensation (assuming there was any) can make up for the change from malik (owner) to naukar (servant).
I'm frankly surprised that LI has written this piece without considering some of these aspects and made PXV look like its doing well. Kian would do well to look at business reporting by Forbes, etc. where such takeovers are inspected and commented upon with a view to know whether they make sense or whether it was a bail-out. Without that this story is just a bit of gossip
But actually, since you want some analysis, in my opinion your example is way off on many counts. Look at the acquisitions Google or Yahoo or other large tech companies have done in the last year or so - a significant percentage have been purely for the (coding) talent within the start-ups, rather than the product or assets of the start-up. That talent then usually gets a lump sum and a lucrative job at Google.
Simplifying a bit, in law firms, the only real assets are the people and the book of business, so law firm takeovers are, to a large part, about taking the partners and other talent and 'employing' them (or 'partnering' them) in your law firm.
And if each partners' book of business is huge, then they bring enough to the table to demand more rights in the new law firm, so the only way to get them to join might be equity partnership, which at Khaitan is probably not that different a deal anyway.
If the book of business is perhaps a bit smaller, as it is in many start-ups, the original take-home pay of some of the start-ups' partners is likely to be less, and therefore an offer of associate partnership could have meant a pay-rise, plus potential access to a larger book of clients, and a possible promise of promotion to equity if they find their feet in the new surroundings and convert some of their books of business.
But I don't think even this can necessarily be applied in this case, since we don't really know all the financials and agreements behind this deal.
My point was on whether a study of the basic differences between KCO and p15 read with the known facts (ie founder partners of p15 becoming ass partners of Kco) makes economic sense. You dont need financials of the two to arrive at a conclusion that p15 was not doing well and this is pretty much a distress sale. Look at the indicators: lawyers who quit giant 100 year old firm to make their own tiny firm quit their tiny firm to join another 100 year old giant firm that too at a mid level only. Can there be any doubt? Maybe khaitans have promised them the moon or maybe not but there is no denying that something major must have made these guys change their minds and take such a darstic decision as well as swallow the bitter pill of having to work for a new master and become one of dozens of ass. partners. If it was a successful business and Kco oferred them a good payment they would simply have left and started another firm/gone on a holiday/whatever
1. It could be money. It's hard to build up a practice from scratch, particularly in this market, where you get the really big ticket mandates that make leverage and profitability really come into their own.
2. Making that leap to big ticket and more complex work can be tough, since a lot of the big name clients are sewn up by the big guys and pre-existing relationships and brand names. Buying into a bigger firm can be an avenue to access that.
3. Maybe scaling up is a challenge that the founders were not as interested in tackling. Not everyone (in fact, most lawyers) can't be bothered or aren't interested in growing an organisation from 10-20 to 100. The latter is very different work, takes a lot of management time and headaches, and probably isn't why most lawyers sign up to law. Many start-ups might not be aware of the full extent of this, or perhaps only realise after having done it, that they'd rather spend their careers doing transactions and taking home a salary than worrying about all the nitty gritty all the time.
4. People get older and their priorities change.
5. The experience you make starting out on your own could actually be of great value in a larger law firm and perhaps let you grow faster with more opportunities than you would have on your own. Refer to some of the tech talent acquisitions by Google and the like I mentioned earlier.
Just some thoughts, but there could be many other reasons.
In this case, I'm not sure why this needs to be labelled a success or failure. It all depends on where you're standing, really.
Quoting kianganz:
If they were adept at building a practice from scratch they would not have sold their practice to KCO. Would you Kian? Would you sell a very successful Legally India that you built from scratch for $$$ and then start "Legal Today" ???
Quoting kianganz:
So what you're saying is that p15 could not do more complex work and therefore their founders said "Hey guys, we're not able to get anything more complex than drafting a sale deed so lets join KCO". Looks like a polite way of saying they failed to build a firm.
Quoting kianganz:
In other words these lads founded p15 to be a tiny firm knowing full well that they would not scale up!? How naive are you Kian to make up a theory like this? Your own reporting on p15, says "PXV Law Partners, which started as RDA Legal only three years ago with its founder just about two years out of NUJS Kolkata, can now boast four metro offices, a lockstep equity partnership model, bi-yearly managing partner elections and ambitious plans to give the legal world’s top brass a run for its money in the next five years."
suddenly today you realise that they wanted to the exact opposite. LOL
Quoting kianganz:
Seriously??? 3 years older ???
Quoting kianganz:
You have reported lots of promotions within the top tier firms Kian. If there's one thing they have in common its rewarding old faithfuls, not laterals. If these p15 guys seriously wanted to do well in an AMSS-type firm (and I'm flattering KCO by saying that) than they would have stuck around in AMSS and AZB (as least Deepto and Thomas would have). Setting up your own firm to "gain experience" with a view to rejoin biglaw is the dumbest theory anyone's come up with till now
The more you analyse this , the more apparent it is that p15 was a pathetic failure. Theres no harm in failing in business so why are all the holy cows getting their knickers in a twist.
If your only yardstick is opportunity cost, then most law firm start ups are a failure.
As is LI, for that matter, because I would have made a lot more money staying at a magic circle firm rather than coming here and taking a risk. And if I exit and take a job in a law firm again, is the experience I've had here any less personal or valuable?
Is a start up law firm a failure because if the lawyer had stayed in a comfortable law firm job he or she could have been a partner earlier and made more money? Only if the extent of your horizon is money and a certain career path.
Part of the point of starting up is that it's an adventure and you're doing your own thing, and even getting to the point of building a firm where you have a team, steady clients and your first profits, is something 90% of lawyers won't ever get to do or are incapable of doing, and should therefore be counted as a success.
I know nearly nothing about PXV or the people involved or the actual reasons they decided to quit the start up life, and I expect neither do you beyond hearsay and conjecture.
Not everything may have gone to plan, because things rarely do in start ups, but they seem to have had a good run and found a home in a good law firm with experience that no one can ever take away.
Your judgment of success or failure is ultimately just your opinion, which you're entitled to, but which I wouldn't share until I know all the facts.
All you can really ask is whether knowing what they know now, they'd do it again. And that's something that neither of us know or can predict without asking them.
Until then, I (and LI) particularly salute any lawyers setting out on their own.
Success or failure is very easy to judge provided we know what the objective is. As of now, we can say that either the p15 boys aspired to be ass. partners at a Biglaw firm (a 'comfortable home' as you describe it) or they aspired to be successful owners of their own firm. Neither objective is especially laudable over the over and I offer no value judgment (unlike your 'salutes'). Now if they wanted to be ass. partners in Biglaw, they've chosen a poor route to go about it. Not only have they missed the seniority bus but it is unlikely their subject matter experience at p15 would greatly help them much. Maybe things work differently in the UK where you come from but most lawyers in India who've been around for a few years in Biglaw would unanimously tell you that loyalty and staying put in indian firms is the best way to reach the top.
If their objective was to successfully run a firm, its a clear failure if they've folded shop in 3-4 years.
I dont see any shame in being a failure but you seem to attach a stigma to it and are refraining from acknowledging so. A good magazine like Forbes would have bluntly called out this 'takeover' for what it is - a distress sale. Instead you seem to believe politeness is preferable over honesty. I guess that's LI's policy.
Returning to your very poor example, I think it is more than fair to say that your experience running LI (and even succeeding for that matter) is of limited value if you were to join a magic circle firm today. Certainly you cannot be at par with someone who's been at a magic circle firm for the last xx years and no doubt the magic circle firm you return to will not fit you higher than him/her. Again, nothing wrong in acknowledging it. It's only natural that LI-management can never substitute magic-circle experience wholly.
You seem to have a misplaced sense of chivalry. Each person should work to his strengths. If someone is good at a biglaw job, kudos to him if he realises it and sticks there. If someone is good at being in-house counsel kudos to him for maximising it. But no kudos to someone who gambles and loses. I consider someone like Deepto a failure (and even unreliable) for abandoning a successful job at AMSS to set up this p15 and then fold up within 3-4 years and joining Khaitan. What has he proved? Certainly not persistence, certainly not wise career choices. He would have been far more deserving of your 'salute' had he persevered for a decade which would have shown his commitment. 3-4 years is barely enough time to grow a legal practice.
In the end please remember that one does not need to know people personally to analyse and judge their actions. If that were true our present system of justice would be useless. An experienced lawyer can easily judge just how 'successful' this p15 enterprise was. But you've not really had much experience working as a lawyer in India (or anywhere else for that matter) have you ... so cant blame you for not understanding how the business works I guess.
In your view and by your definition of success, which is climbing the career ladder more quickly, maybe you're right. Or maybe they'll have a
good more thriving practice than their classmates in a few years at Khaitan.
Plus you seem to view life / career as a zero sum game, which suggests you're not the kind to take risks.
However, it'd be unwarranted, not to say very bad journalism, for me to call a start-up a failure using only your subjective metric, without being in possession of most the facts, which neither of us are. Unlikely, but for all you know maybe they'll get paid Rs 10 cr rupees cash as a signing bonus. They were courted by around 5 law firms for a merger as far as I know, so good terms are certainly a possibility.
So, like I said, you're welcome to your opinion, just don't expect me to endorse it or write a column or something doing so.
My definition of success is climbing quickly any ladder that you want to climb and not a corporate firm ladder. The p15 boys did not succeed at either and were by all accounts more of rolling stones than anything else.
Quoting kianganz:
I have said nothing related to balancing life and career. Dunno where you got that impression. All my comments were on the abilities
of the p15 boys as lawyers and owners of a firm.
Quoting kianganz:
That's only to be expected I guess Kian when all you do at LI is encourage, source and publish gossip. Until you analyse your 'news' and offer a take on it, preferably by someone experienced (and not you and your tiny staff none of who have spent any real time slogging it out in the Indian legal profession and have zero perspective on how law firms / lawyers work in this country beyond hearsay), LI will be at best..a Mid-Day / Mumbai Mirror like tabloid. But don't worry, it takes skills even to run a gossip and I 'salute' you for that.
Quoting kianganz:
KCO would not pay them a 10cr bonus if their business and clientele wasn't worth that much and if it was indeed worth that much they wouldnt have sold their business and joined KCO at the level you have reported them to have joined.
Quoting kianganz:
I dunno what kind of law firms you refer to but AMSS and AZB have certainly made no such attempt and I know of one smaller firm (Delhi-based) that shooed them away. [...]
Quoting kianganz:
I am not as naive as you to expect you to endorse my opinion. But I trust that our exchange makes you aware that informed readers of LI can see through your very superficially written reporting and opinions that are disconnected from reality.
a) you're still looking for a half-baked, perception-based hatchet job under the guise of 'analysis' in a straight up news report, and
b) you're unable to consider that one's life and career could ever be more than just a zero-sum snakes and ladders game where you count the bank balance on the day you die to find out whether you've won.
Best wishes,
Kian
Sorry Kian but nowhere have I mentioned that life is a zero-sum game (assuming you know what that means). Neither have I made any reference to a bank balance as being the only yardstick for success. What we have been posting here is about whether it is possible to take a view as to the success or failure of p15 based on the info we have and contrasting your style of journalism with reputed industry-watchers. Instead of welcoming suggestions you take an ostrich-like view and issue denials (not too different from all those managing partners we love to hate). Well...sad.
And for all its faults, even a 'half-baked, perception-based hatchet job under the guise of 'analysis' in a straight up news report' is better than an uninformed unverified unanalysed bit of tabloid gossip trying to masquerade itself as a 'news story' and an editorial team that has not a single person who has any experience of working as a lawyer in India trying to pass themselves off as "journalists".
You are only getting riled up at being criticised and exposing your weaknesses further. Don't take my comments too personally, at most they are about your professional ability and I'm sure you're a great guy and nice human being, (at least the last bit of which your ex-colleagues at Bloomberg have vouched for).
Love,
Kian
On the bright side, I'm sure managing partners love having you around as their little lapdog. Keep it up!
And how big is the difference between a salaried partner and an equity partner with limited rights in a big firm anyway! Please elaborate....and dont mention money please.
now get a life (even a professional one would do)
I have never read anything more ridiculous. PXV is not an 'enterprise' which is selling its assets to KCO and getting money in return. Its assets are in fact the partners who are joining KCO as partners alongwith their clients.
Get your basics right before giving so much gyaan.
This is a somewhat complex deal that's clearly resulting in the break-up of the PXV firm / brand because only some partners / associates are joining Khaitan. Nothing vicious about that...
And the colourful history of RDA/PXV, which is all factual and has been documented in the past, is relevant background surely...?
Anyway, I very much appreciate your efforts in bringing 'colour' to the dull and boring lives of us Indian lawyers by filling us on relevant historical background from time to time! This profession needs you at the end of the day.
It's a bit complicated, but in essence Pingal Khan is currently a non-voting equity partner. I.e., he holds equity in the firm but does not vote on firm partnership type decisions.
also non reporting of anti-RDA comments ;)
We are being sarcastic here... Don't get too serious dear. Be our Guest...
If it is none of our/your business, why are you wasting time on this forum reading comments. Everyone and anyone has the right to comment.
They should rebrand. As Dewey Khaitan and co
Hk will largely achieve the azb part but can never achieve displacing Amss as the number one firm by buying mediocre partners at exorbitant rates . And constantly low balling in market. The math does not add up. The quality of the Amss bench and K co bench are chalk and cheese.
But zia. Needs to worry as there is no doubt that she has lost steam and the firm is floundering to retain talent. Apart from a few partners there is nothing left in azb .
The comment about Dewey Khaitan is indeed astute. This is exactly what happened from the reckless expansion that. Dewey did. It's just a matter of time before k co implodes. Interesting to see how the market is evolving .
Amss biggest risk is that the delhi and Mumbai offices run as two firms and compete . If they became a unified firm they will wipe out every one by a long lead. Sad .
Looks like. J s a and tri legal are doomed tobe second tier for ever.
JSA is not second tier. It has Berjis, Dina, Amit. Akshay, Farhad, Som. Six heavy weights, Even AMSS does not have six beyond shroffistan. True growth is not who has more number of associates but who has market stature partners. JSA does. Not sure about AMSS. Even AZB has Abhijeet, probhal, Gautam, shuva, percy, essaji.
Ur kidding rgt?
I really doubt it. You must be someone from the group getting bashed. The reason all this is happening is because certain people mentioned in these comments showed no mercy towards other younger legal brains. The connections regarding a wife joining and leaving a firm in merely 4 months proves the point being made above. No one writes something bad unless something bad is done. The are not ordinary people but ones in charge of a law firm!! I think worse have been written about Luthras and Khaitans and even Shroffs who have not bothered. Why is the Das so bothered? Truth pinches right??
There's certainly a lot of rivalry and some bad blood evident in this thread but if we were to moderate anything critical, we'd basically only have comments that say: "Nice move, congratulations." And then we might as well disable comments completely on all stories.
Also, some of the comments on LI are clearly meant as jokes, so if you're taking those seriously as vitriol, then that could be the problem.
But sometimes the talk is so insidery that we might miss insinuations. If there's any comment that you think is not cool, please use the "Report to LI" option underneath the comment with your objection and we will take a look, promise.
Finally, far from cheerleading, I'd personally prefer the commenting to be a little more mature and [less] bitchy. However, we've made this space available for readers and created it as a sort-of echo chamber of the profession, which I think is useful in an industry where few are ever able to say what they really think for fear of their seniors wrath.
There is enough written about Vaishali after she started Agram. Her shifting around, not being able to stick, will end up as a bad lawyer, etc.
So much written about Indus law and P&C Legal during their break and their capability. So much about Abhimanyu and Deepto and their capabilities and shifting jobs and starting firms. Why is Ms. Ushasi so insecure about her shifting jobs and how is it personal. I have seen worse personal comments being made. I think these comments consist entirely professional and professional capabilities which is fine. I do not see any personal comments here. I now see truth does pinch a lot!! And I have seen every RDA Associate leave due to no pay and have joined the bigger and best firms.
What does RDA have to comment about their new policy at GLC? The want "Articles" who are graduates, for 6 months, with no pay and no job guarantee!! Am I wrong RDA? Isn't this another way of fooling young grads? Why would a grad join as an "article" after graduation for NO pay? Articleships is Bombay is synonymous with Solicitors exam. Does RDA have ANY solicitor?? Who is RDA trying to fool now? This comment must be out in public domain that young GLC-ites are not fooled like other Associates were in the past! Will RDA explain this "Articleship"?
BEST OF LUCK
[Corrected: there was a typo with respect to firm /family]
And whoever said there were 6 Khaitans and Jhunjhunwalas in Mumbai - please list names, seems unlikely too...
[Sorry, just realised that my earlier comment indeed didn't make sense - I meant, it's unlikely that 1/3 of the entire firm's headcount are family members in Cal?]
(1)Haigreve Khaitan, (2) Rabindra Jhunjhunwala, (3) Rishi Shroff (nephew of Haigreve), (4) Radhika (niece of Rabindra), (5) Kinshuk Jhunjhunwala, (6) Vidushi Jhunjhunwala, etc.
In any case, I stand by my earlier comment that 100 family members in Calcutta are highly unlikely, even if you could just get to a count of 5 in Mumbai, including extended family and the like. :)
Gut feeling I'd estimate no more than 10 partners from those 2 families at most, though I admit I don't know much about Cal or how many niece or nephew associates there are, nor does it really matter so much.
I'm sure some insider could share it here if it's so important.
What's more interesting is the management structure at Khaitan, where I understand the family is in the minority and doesn't enjoy and vetoes? Maybe someone can confirm.
And if i am right, (6) isnt even related. Complete joke you idiots are!!
It is absolutely shocking that names of associates are being written on public platform. They have their career ahead, and this is not public life. Out of the names mentioned (2), (3) and (4) are from NLS and (5) is from NUJS. They would have got jobs in any other Indian / international firms. As regards (6), she is not family.
From this perspective, any Khaitan or Jhunjhunwala will be family. Rakesh Jhunjhunwala....are you listening? You may have heirs here!
www.legallyindia.com/201308223929/Law-firms/luthra-cap-markets-head-madhurima-mukherjee-quits (156 published comments).
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