NUJS Kolkata professor Shamnad Basheer and two students have threatened to complain to the Press Council of India about the law school rankings of national magazines Outlook India and India Today, which they allege suffered from "gross inaccuracies and methodological flaws" that violated "canons of journalistic ethics" and did a great disservice to students.
In separate letters sent to Outlook's editor Vinod Mehta and India Today's editor-in-chief Aroon Purie on 18 August 2010, Basheer and NUJS third-year students Shambo Nandy and Debanshu Khettry said that the magazines needed to examine and redress the matter of their 2010 rankings of law colleges, which were both re-published on Legally India on 22 June 2010.
Basheer told Legally India that there were very obvious errors in this year's Outlook ranking.
In the letter to the magazine the professor and the two students alleged that the weighting given to the "selection process" at colleges was not accurate, that "academic excellence" was not given enough weighting, college's placements were not reflected well and that faculty performance was not taken into account.
They also alleged that paid advertisements in Outlook and India Today's supplements appeared to have an effect on the respective ranking of a law college and requested for both magazines to explain NUJS's drop in the 2010 rankings.
NUJS dropped from second place in 2009 to fifth place in 2010's Outlook rankings, with Nalsar Hyderabad, ILS Pune and NLIU Bhopal pulling ahead of the Kolkata law school.
India Today placed NUJS two places higher than the previous year in 2010 in sixth rank behind NLSIU, Nalsar, NLIU Bhopal, Campus Law Centre DU and Symbiosis Pune.
"The obvious ones where [Outlook] really goofed up on is the 'selection process' category," Basheer told Legally India. "For CLAT [the Common Law Admissions Test] all of these [CLAT] colleges have the same selection process but are marked differently.
"And Banaras Hindu University [BHU] got the highest marks for 'selection process' and the exam is worse than CLAT or as good as CLAT at best. The second mark is given to ILS Pune but ILS doesn't even have an entrance exam - they just select based on 12th standard marks," said Basheer.
"Secondly 'academic excellence' is given lower marks than 'selection process'," he added, stating that Outlook only allocated 200 marks to the former whereas potentially awarding up to 288 marks in the latter category.
In terms of recruitment Nalsar Hyderabad was judged by Outlook to have been ahead of NLSIU Bangalore, although NLSIU had a stronger recruitment performance that year according to independent data, Basheer said.
The process in the category of "faculty performance" was also not clear, noted Basheer. "They asked us for a whole bunch of data, they asked us not only for publications but photocopies of the key pages of the publications and to compile all of that. And in the end we find they've not even ranked faculty although they had it in 2008."
"Why did you drop faculty performance?" he asked. "This is an important indicator."
He also added that Outlook India had never appeared to independently verify data and that law schools inevitably inflated their figures, while "perceptual ranks" were determined by consulting anonymous stakeholders without transparency.
Finally, Basheer, Nandy and Khettry's letters also alleged that there was a correlation between advertisements law schools took out or declined to take out in the Outlook and India Today supplements and the eventual rankings of the respective colleges in the same supplement.
Basheer claimed that colleges that took out advertising generally did not ever drop to lower rankings. "It regularises the risk of rank inflation."
While he said that the errors in Outlook's rankings this year were a lot more glaring than India Today's, both magazines' methodologies were flawed and not transparent.
The students and Basheer wrote to the magazines: "We would appreciate a satisfactory response from you within the next one week of receipt of this letter, failing which we will be compelled to initiate appropriate proceedings before the Press Council of India under the Press Council (Procedure for Inquiry) Regulations, 1979."
Outlook's editor Mehta and India Today's editor-in-chief Purie were not immediately available for comment when emailed by Legally India.
Click here to download a copy of Basheer, Nandy and Khettry's letter to Outlook India.
Read the debate on Outlook and India Today's rankings in the earlier Legally India article.
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NUJS, by pointing out these grave flaws in methodology and conduct of Outlook rankings/officials has taken the right and a brave step forward.
Kudos to Shamnad, Khettry and Nandy. I am all for NLUs boycotting these rankings.
Everyone sane knows that NLSIU, NALSAR, NUJS and possibly NLU Jodhpur are more or less the same overall, with other National Law schools plus GLC, CLC and maybe ILS and Symby following behind, ranging from close to not-that-close behind. Any attempt to rank in numerical order is futile exercise and utterly arbitrary with the pretence of methodology and objectivity.
Outlook's and India Today's rankings have never been right. Simply put they lack the expertise to do that. In 2005 when India Today put ILS at number 1, some students preferred ILS over NLSIU. Interestingly, in 2006 ILS slipped to a the 4-6 rank (don't remember the exact rank). These rankings end up misleading thousands of law aspirants which is very unfortunate.
I would love to see someone with knowledge and expertise in the legal field; someone like LegallyIndia/LST/Rainmaker come up with their ranking. And if I am right Bar Council of India too is planning to do something similar.
Maybe that is the reason why recruitment pattern in my firm prefers NLS and now the Hyderbabd law school only.
Law schools are not just made for this. I guess thats the reason why the maximum litigators, PPs, profs and the judiciary belongs to remaining 900 law schools of the country. I am would request that outlook and india today should also consider this aspect in thr rankings. Law schools are not only for giving associates to these law firms, but much more and as of date the so called "National Law Schools" have failed in doing anything apart from that.
Our judicial and the teaching system needs the best of brains to add to the betterment of the legal system and rather not running behind the hourly rates paid by big MNCs.
I can hop over to some other computer and say that 'my firm' prefers XYZ college. Stop making such false and ANONYMOUS remarks.
to ur relief the letter is being circulated within the legal fraternity, ideally it should have been published in the national newspapers questioning the role of media as to how- for their own greed they come up with such ranking and misguide college aspirants.
@ 17 seriously, Which law firm do you belong to?
@ 12 GLC, mumbai will continue to show in the top 25 list for next hundred years, reason are - 1) its alumni list and 2) the students studying in the college, who without any facility and faculty also are doing remarkably well!!!
Better still the letter does not seem to air a grievance with respect to NUJS's rank only but questions the methodology adopted for the entire ranking hence should benefit all and sundry.
It looks like a lot of us are taught the law but some in NUJS are using it. :0
#20 Remember rankings do not matter as much as perceptions do, in case anyone is interested in this "unjust" world of corporate law firms.
And BTW: these are my personal views on the spur of the momement - I may be entirely wrong about your college
Do note that unless requested by the author him or herself we will NEVER disclose any details about the location or identity of commenters nor use this for any stories, sourcing, etc.
Best regards,
Kian
I am a third year law student from NUJS. I expected some sort of maturity from a Magic
Circle firm associate/employee, etc. {Sincere apologies if I hurt your ego}. I appreciate that you do understand that comments made on the spur of the moment might be wrong.
Thank you, apologies once again.
From #20
I also hope that you understand that comments like "What next supporting Naxalites or dividing themselves along political lines in West Bengal? Maybe they aspire to become a typical law college in India in as much as being very vocal and political. "
- from a Magic Circle firm, does not put a good light on what you yourself think of and how reactionary you are. Such a comment was totally uncalled for, though this is an open forum and your views are well respected. You are free to make whatever comments you want though societal implications will take their way accordingly.
I said: "My experience is that not everyone outside of NUJS knows what Noojies are. And besides Google likes 'NUJS-ers' better than 'Noojies'."
A Facebooker replied: "also, in my first year i discovered that prior generations of 'NUJS-ers' considered being called 'noojies' to be derog."
I am interested - what is the PC thing to call an NUJS person? Please don't reply in the below thread as very off topic, but please let us know if you like being called 'Noojie' or there is another term in our forum:
www.legallyindia.com/Law-schools-and-students/1841-Noojie-or-NUJS-er-or-NUJS-ian-Nooji-ite#1841
Otherwise we'll have to continue with NUJS-er in headlines, which looks a bit silly...
Thanks,
Kian
ps: Thanks #26, much appreciated!
By the way, most corporate lawyers I know (whether in India or aborad) are pretty mature and some are very funny as well. Try being funny and maturity will be drilled in you
And btw what was the need to even tell that he is from a Magic Circle Firm??? Do we guys really care???
Please note that no NLU is specifically asking for credit for their facilities. India Today and Outlook rank us out of their own volition; all that is being asked for is a measure of transparency in motives and methodology. Not only does the present system insult an institution of repute, it misleads aspirants who do not know any better. For example, while ILS has several plus points, I can only feel sorry for those who preferred it over NLS post the magazine ranking ILS as #1.
@17 - you're right, we misguided law students do occasionally fight for diversity (the IDIA project), for clarity (the bar exam), and for transparency (the ranking system). Sorry for not being more apathetic/submissive, because that's what law school's all about, isn't it. When we grow old and indifferent, and want a pen-pushing job, no doubt we'll join you in your Magic Circle firm. Until then you can continue to review documents and we will continue to fight.
All you Noojies / NUJS-ers - please drop out of college immediately...you know what my hero thinks of your college.
Unless someone suggests that the rankings are actually correct and a true and fair reflection of the colleges, most comments here reflect the typical Indian herd mentality of sitting back, doing nothing and passing snyde remarks at those who are willing to put in the trouble for making things better.
1) Prof MP Singh once told us that while Prof Ranbir Singh is his close friend, he disagrees with his agressive marketing methods to promote NALSAR, such as issuing advertisements in India Today and kowtowing to corporates. Sorry, but he needs to understand that these are exactly the methods university heads should employ to promote their colleges. Many top foreign universities advertise in magazines. There is a difference between a crude IIPM-style and a dignified ad for Oxford and Harvard. Prof Singh should also pursue tie-ups with foreign universities and woo corporate houses for grants.
2) The faculty and infrastructure at NUJS does not justify the price. Many teachers are very poor. The hostel facilities have gone from bad to worse.
3) NUJS got a second plot of land five years in a prime spot five years ago, but they have done nothing to develop it. They might as well sell the land to a developer and use the money to improve the present campus.
4) Why is Prof Singh embarrassed to approach politicans for help? Mamata wields a lot of power at the centre and can easily arrange for several grants. NALSAR was unabashed about their relationshiop with Chandrababu Naidu during th NDA years. Why does Prof Singh have to be so introverted?
Yes, NUJS is among the top 3 law schools and the India Today rankings are miselading. But surely Prof Basheer should think about the flaws in of Prof Singh's policies?. When Prof Menon was at NUJS it was considered the second best NLU. Now it'sconsidered the third best. Why the decline?
Basheer says that academic excellence has been given lower weightage than selection process. So? Isn't that the prerogative of the magazine to give whatever weightage they want to give? A reader may agree or disagree with the rankings/weightage, etc. but is there any regulation/guideline which states that magazines have to give certain wieghtage on certain categories when ranking colleges. If a magazine drops 'faculty performance' from the criteriae, again its their methodology....you may agree or you may disagree, but what wrong is the magazine committing by dropping this criteria...serious enough that it should be hauled up by the PCI?
I don't think that a magazine is required to justify to its readers as to why they chose one criteria over another 9or gave more weightage on one criteria over the other).
Recently, Outlook ran a ranking on the performance of union ministers and gave them marks (5/10, 7/10, etc.). I did not hear any minister running to the PCI complaining about him being marked low. Why, because it might have been too petty for them.
What about law firm rankings and awards? Legal500, Chambers, etc. also provide rankings. How do they rank them? Every month we hear of law firms winning awards, etc. How are they chosen? How come we don't hear of managing partners of law firms suing these award functions and publications because they were not awarded/ranked (though they may feel that they deserved it). I will tell you why.....its too petty for them.
Now the argument that will be advanced is that prospective students are being misled. If that is the case, why did the top rankers in CLAT choose NLS/NALSAR/NUJS as their top priority (as per LIs report on this earlier). It would be in a very rare case that a person who gets admission in NUJS would drop it for ILS.
Grow up NUJS !! You are making it look like a case of sour grapes (while I am sure that it is not the case). You know where you stand and what you are, you know your faculty strengths, you know your campus recruitments. This actually looks cheap. Basheer is doing a great job with IDIA. It would be great to see him continue with these kind of initiatives rather than getting after petty stuff.
And I won't be suprised if these magazines do not reply to Basheer's letter. It would have found its way to the trash can of the editors.
Again, I don't agree with the rankings. And I think NUJS is a great college.
Its not rare buddy. People who have spent a year at ILS, Symbi, GLC etc regularly come to NUJS.
Nobody takes Outlook and India Today seriously, not just in the case fo rankings but also in terms of general news. Prabhu Chawla? ROTLFMAO.
Some have even gone to the extent of imputing that 2 of the three actually provide a fertile ground for breeding Naxalites and other recidivists !!
others have been lulled into believing that locational advantage (proximity to the Apex Court) is the best and ONLY criterion for choosing a law school.
Not to mention specious claims such as the critical importance of AC classrooms and the like...
Therefore, Shamnad and his students' efforts are truly laudable. Its high time that someone took the bold step of nailing some lies and prevarications which are greatly inimical to students' futures !
Being an ex- student of NUJS
1) If you are from the first batch how did u meet Prof. MPS, he came 1.5 years after the first batch passed out.
2) NUJS never got any second prime spot, it is all wiki rubbish about plot in New Town
Honesty being an endangered virtue... i just hope that the NUJS people some honest motive behind thier efforts rather than the alleged cheap publicity for themselves n thier University!! Wish you guys the best...
But keep one thing in mind "study of law" means something very much beyond NLUs.
The NLS's are going the same way as the IITs and IIMs - tax payers' money used to for subsidising the best education available in the country. IITians opt for the trading floor (through IIMs and investment banks) rather than the factory shop floor - or the govt research institutions, or even return as faculty. IIM grads tend to prefer the investment banks, hedge funds, etc eager to spend their time speculating in "exotic" financial products rather than running real brick and mortar companies.
Not the best way to repay their debt to society for giving them a vastly subsidised education.
And, if anyone joined IIPM reading their page-long adverts rather than deserve to be conned. With the internet there is no excuse, not even for people hailing from small towns, for not doing a bit of research on the net before choosing their careers.
Lastly, NUJSian sounds a tad better than noojie or the downright ghastly Nujs-er.
1. They have threatened, not filed the complain.(If i am not wrong)
2. They are private companies so on what ground you will go against them?
Now, today I will on behalf of law firm magazine or company magazine or on any survey conducted by eminent legal advertisers, etc gonna put nujs or any college out of rank 10 or after rank 5, can anyone has right to complain or sue me or the company?
its like the college wanna tell i am better than that college, why that college will sit and say oh yah, you are better, comeon no one will accept this.Will any student of any college will say my college is poor than that college? If yes, you are accepting the defeat.if you cant make your college the best in the list, dont put claims on college.
Anyway, rankings and all doesnt matter and after passing out, you hardly think over it. I will just say one thing to them who wanna file any complain, GROW UP, better try your energy in getting more better than rankings idiotness.
you should be blaming:
1) the senior advocates who earn crores but pay nothing to juniors
2) ignorant judges
3) the culture of nepotism
4)corruption
if these things were absent then NLU gras would surely be working in the courts
This is an ignoramus statement. The oldest student from the oldest batch of NUJS (est. in 1999) would have a max. 5 years of practice in any Court. No one can make a mark in 5 yeras of litigation practice.
NLSIU (est. in 1989) has already got its share of stalwarts litigators. Think Adithya Sondhi, Karnatka.
Symbi, which is a way older law school can be reasonably expected to have its share of good litigators. Its been there for 30 years now. 30 years means 10 times more students (symbi's intake is more too) and a significant time spent in litigation.
Also, when the top 40 rankers at NUJS and NLS are getting 15 lac/annum from day 1 of passing out why would they sweat in infrastructually poor, merit-discouraging Indian courts?
@ 45 good observation. Lol. I guess the rankings with Colleges with hottest chicks would be like GLC, Symbi, Amity, DU, GNLU, NALSAR, RGNLU, ICFAI Dehradun, ILS, Fergusson Pun & et al. With due respect to everyone & offence to none. Remember folks - beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. :-)
So far as I know a statement cannot be 'ignoramus'. It is the person who makes that statement who can be called an "ignoramus". Having been a practising lawyer for some time, I have forgotten the art of villifying the opposing counsel rather than the case made out by him. However, as a matter of fact we have learned advocates in our High Court who have made a name for themselves in 5 years. One of them comes from Symbiosis, though most are from the University of Calcutta. I rarely make general statements without having data to back it up. Another effect of being a practising lawyer.
As far as the last sentence in Post No.61 is concerned, perhaps the learned commentator has forgotten what was the original reason cited by the Bar Council of India for establishing such law schools? To make better professional lawyers and increase the standard of teaching and study of law and the legal profession. I do not deny that 15 lakhs an year is a magnetic incentive for a fresh law graduate, compared to the grind that he/she has to go through to become a successful lawyer/advocate. However working as a solicitor's associate (pardon my archaic language, in Calcutta we still refer to law firms as solicitor firms though since 1961 there has been no solicitor as such in theory)is not what Mr. Harish Salve, Mr. Ram Jethmalani, Mr. Fali S Nariman or Mr. Vengupal or Mr. Mukul Rohtagi, not to mention Mr. Shanti Bhushan are known for. Perhaps even you, the author of Post No.61 will agree, it is worthwhile to want to emulate these luminaries? They earn quite a lot more than Rs.15 lakhs an year, by the way!
For a law student who has just passed out law firms provide money and security. And students from NUJS, NLSIU, NALSAR etc come from all over India. So even if they are litigating they prefer the SC and or the Delhi HC, Bombay HC etc or courts from states from where they belong.
Why students from local universities like CU join the local bars is simple. The students/crowd is local and is not good enough make it to the top firms.
And btw...you cite the example of one symbi student!! Is that data or an incident?
Your 'orginal purpose of establishing NLUs' statement too carries no weight. While law firms attract law students like magnets, litigators repel good talent like pigs.
Litigators don't pay the students at all; do not give them good work/cases and treat them like pests.
Why would any NLU student (except those really enthused and fascinated by the prospects) want to go into the bar, which has nothing in the name of the professionalism? Even the transformation from a junior to a senior does not have any time period or merit based consideration.
Pay them 30k/ month (min.), give them good work and good work conditions and they will surely join the bar.
Good work NUJS. People who wish to malign u have no better work. There isnt an iota of doubt that what you are doing stands as a genuine concern. I have read the letter. It talks about revealing the data on which such rankings were made. Nowhere does it cry foul and asks for NUJS' rank to be increased. So those who are cribbing, please grow up urself. Read the letter and make constructive comments.
sorry im not a regular visitor of website. so dont know this.
Best regards,
Kian
A prestigious publication such as Newsweek came out with their ranking of what they perceive as the most livable countries in the world. They got a lot of flak for their methodology and the choices they made. Does that mean that some country should move a UN General Assembly resolution to issue a rebuke to Newsweek's owners? Given the wide circulation of Newsweek, I do not have to assert the fact that it influences many more people and institutions all over the world in the choices they make. Truth be told, a lot of people rely on a singular news weekly for their regular dose of international affairs news. This makes Newsweek at times the sole source of information on international affairs.
Many of you would have heard of the US News rankings and the recently popular Jiao Tong University rankings. The US News rankings and the Jiao Tong University rankings do not always show Harvard and Yale in the top 5 on MANY occassions. Has that ever lead to Professor Kraakman or Grossman filing a complaint with the FCC in the US? NO. Why? Because they have better things to do. Like the pursuit of academic excellence for starters.
Professor Shamsheed has lost a LOT of respect and credibility in my book for sensationalising what is a trivial issue to most.
Truly elite academia never worries about laurels. If they can impart the highest quality education, they could be least concered about what appears in just one of the fifty two editions of one of the many weeklies available in India. The majority of India Today and Outlook magazines are read by urban to suburban households. NUJS should focus on extending their efforts to reach out to the lesser privileged sections of our society. Its not as if thse sections are clusters of light headed idiots.
Very disappointing behaviour from NUJS.
Lastly, Kian, could you let us know how you happen to know whether a comment posted on LegallyIndia is from a magic circle law firm? The IP address does not list the name of the firm, so how would you know if it is a magic circle firm?
'Reveal anything more'?
I beg your pardon. With all due respect, I do not think you've answered my question at all. Therefore, the question of further, or as you put it - 'more' revelation does not arise.
Did I miss anything here?
As a person who posts on your site, I think I deserve a more elaborate response than the one you have just provided. This is in our interest as the knowledge that you are aware of not only our IP address but also the particular company which we work for is rather disconcerting and would certainly prevent a more frank discussion.
In light of this, I would request an actual response.
Thanks.
Some firms have requeseted for us to disclose IP addresses of commenters but we have always declined to do so and have strongly resisted threats of proceedings to force us to. Our servers are based in the UK and subject to stronger UK data protection laws.
Unless ordered by a court or law enforcement to disclose IP addresses, we will not do so.
Now the reason I did not want to say more is that from this you might be able to figure out which firm it is (if you had a lot of free time and no life), so we will leave it at that. Any comments naming or guessing the firm would obviously be moderated.
Plus it is quite a technical discussion and will probably bore most readers.
Hope that explains it.
Best regards
Kian
ps: For those bored by this discussion, a short explanation: Every website you travel will receive your IP address, which is a unique number that (almost) every computer on the internet has. To find out your real identity from an IP address is usually difficult and normally requires your internet service provider to disclose this data. If you are worried/paranoid about this google for "anonymous proxy", which can enable you to browse the web more anonymously.
Rest assured, I have neither the inclination nor the time to indulge in finding out oabout bscure IP addresses. In fact, your explanation has not made me any more the wiser on which international law firms' IP address show up their name.
And no, I do not think that something as significant as privacy can be dismissed with innocuous labels such as 'technical'. As lawyers, a lot of what we do is technical as well. Why not dismiss that as well?
Anyway, I hope that you do not see anything sinister in the comments. Its just commenters wishing to know more about the site they devote atleast 20 minutes of their day to.
Well, I hope you have heard about the IDIA project and the people who are involved in it.
(If you haven't). The IDIA (Increasing diversity by increasing access to legal education) project seeks to find ways to reach out to students from economically poor or underprivileged regions of India, sensitize them to law as a career option and help those interested to acquire admission to the top National Law Universities.
The project has been conceptualised and spearheaded by Prof. Shamnad Basheer.
Here is the link to the IDIA blog www.idially.blogspot.com/
You may also search this website for more information.
"Some firms have requeseted for us to disclose IP addresses of commenters but we have always declined to do so and have strongly resisted threats of proceedings to force us to. "
How dare they ask for it! Who the hell do these people think they are??? I suspect someone from the anti-liberalisation lobby is behind this. I got news for you buddy, every single student of every single law school is against SILF and wants foreign law firms. Why don't you send a legal notice to the VCs of NLSIU, NALSAR and NUJS?
@71: suar ka baccha is slang in both hindi and bengali, probably other languages too. you hope that the person who used it is not from NUJS? LOL..today's students use F-words at the drop of a hat. delhiwallas are the worst as they use really crude hindi abuses all the time.
I thought as much that that would be brought up.
I am aware of the IDIA (but thanks for the link anyway).
I think NUJS should focus on these commendable initiatives which show the law school as pioneering and not domineering.
The agitation against the rankings really does not befit an institute like NUJS. It is hoped that they will realise their overblown reaction to what remains a trifling issue and return to doing what they do best. Excel in legal education and research.
As pointed out already, the ire in the letter is directed against the flawed rankings per se which mislead many young students and their parents. You would be naiive to suggest that it does not. And I tell you what, this is NOT a trifling issue. (May be it is for YOU). The letter is not meant to whine about NUJS's rank. As you have so rightly pointed out yourself, we have better things to do. Like legal research, articleship, moots, academia. And trust me, we are doing it pretty well. We do not need an India Today certificate to show where we stand amongst law schools. Amen.
Ermmm...for the 5000 law aspirants who are from big cities, are rich and study at LST/IMS etc. the rankings of India Today/Outlook/Mint do not matter. They have these coaches/mentors etc. to guide them. As far as I know (a fact corrobroated by LegallyIndia) too; the prefrences go as: NLSIU-NALSAR-NUJS-NLIU-NLUJ.
For the rest of the 10,000 law aspirants rankings given by India Today,Outlook etc. matter. They base their decisions on these rankings. Can you imagine how big a blunder someone committed in 2005 when he/she preferred ILS over NLS just because India Today said so. Steps like this letter by NUJS pointing out the methodological flaws in the rankings, aim at preventing such catastrophes.
Even when IDIA teams go to schools in poor/rural regions we tell them why NLUs and other top law schools offer them good careers and good education. Ideally, we should also have good data/rankings so as to convince the students of what we say. Such rankings which are ill-informed, pathetically researched and 'influenced by advertisments' do not augur well for IDIA-like initiatives also.
Thre are some serious questions which the SJA Prez must answer
NUJS
Yara chanda pa.
Go NUJS!! Fight injustice!! :-)
HAVE U EVEN GONE THROUGH THE LETTER? IT DOESN'T WHINE ABOUT NUJS RANKINGS. IT QUESTIONS OVERALL METHODOLOGICAL FLAWS AND ASKS THAT DATA BE REVEALED. YOU GAVE SOME TRASH ABOUT NEWSWEEK. WHO SAYS THAT EXISTING IDEOLOGIES CANNOT BE CHALLENGED? NUJS IS DOING JUST THAT. HELPING THE UNINFORMED WITH THE RISK OF ITS OWN RANKINGS BEING JEOPARDIZED IN THE FUTURE.
GROW UP MR.GANESAN.
The year in which law firms didnt turn up to NUJS because of recession, where did you all go ? Siting at home or joining senior advocates in Delhi and Calcutta. Some of them even ended up joining LPOs. You people have a good placement forum which other law schools lack. Thats it ! Thanks to your first two batches. They were exceptionally good. The magazines are not incorrect in ranking you.
"You people have a good placement forum which other law schools lack. Thats it ! " - wow, what insights.
You are doing law aspirants great favour.
In the previous LI story comments there was not a single person who could agree with the India Today /outlook rankings and everyone cribbed, complained and insulted the magazines.
But everyone just sat on their backside and did nothing but crib from their armchairs. Now some students/prof at a college actually try to do something about it and actually call the magazines to account or get them to improve or highlight that such rankings are not perfect, and all you guys have to do is crib on college partisan lines.
Honestly, get a life and some consistency. If you accept the rankings are flawed and nonsense, it is good someone is trying to tell this like it is. The fact is, they are terribly influential and do make a lot of parents choose where to send their kids, sometimes wrongly.
It is a racket and you are all being part of it by not supporting NUJS and continuing to buy magazine ads, play the game and get higher rankings.
Sad state of affairs.
Yours,
-Disillusioned by lawyers
Instead of blaming India Today or Outlook you should contemplate on the reason for your detoriation. Even magic fircle firms as mentioned in previous comments doesnt prefer NUJS these days because of your arrogance.
You expect India Today should rank you because you are a great Associate. Somebody may think India Today should rank him because he is a much smarter law maker than you. Your urge and expectation to join a foreign law firm (or your fate of joining a foreign law firm) is dependent on that non-NLU lawmaker my friend. :-) :-)
I have nothing against NUJS
NUJS
too much mind blowing replies..lolz
anyway let me ask 1 thing to you guys
POST COLLEGE RANKINGS AS YOU FEEL (TOP 8 ONLY), AND SEE HOW MUCH DIFFERENCES COMES HERE ITSELF..and yes dont post reasons behind the rankings..just post ranks....let me see how much unity you guys have..
A NEW WAR WILL START HERE AFTER YOUR RANKINGS....
Bar Exam is to test 'capabilties at a basic level' and 'to set a min. standard for admission into the practice of law'. It tests 'eligibility and not expertise'
To rank colleges on the basis of such a test will be rididculous.
A 'calibration test' too is being conducted to plot the difficulty of AIBE. One of the steps is to conduct the test in select colleges according to their 'tier rankings' so as to see how students from differently placed colleges perform.
The college selected from amongst the top-most tier is NUJS. I rest my case.
www.barcouncilofindia.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/AIBEPresentation27July.pdf
BTW...symbiosis law college is placed at TIER 2. This shows the huge gap (not of a one or two ranks but of one complete TIER; like the difference between an international and a Ranji cricketer) between NUJS and Symbi.
Shitty magazines like india today and outlook rank symbi above NUJS. Mr. Vinod Mehta...NUJS is aobve symbi by one full TIER. Take note.
@120 - You mean to say that expertise can be attained without having the eligibility ? Its like unable to clear medical final exam and aspiring to become a neuro-surgeon !!
And whats the harm if a law school advertise ? Education has now become a commodity of exchange..... with the best of the faculties and infrastructure colleges are definitely standardised within 4-5 yrs. And remember 5 yrs is a pretty long time to groom yourself as a lawyer2b.
Its a good thing that NUJS has complained now, it will not only help them but also other law schools. Yes there is freedom of speech but there is also responsibility of not misguiding people. In fact I would like to see NUJS publicising this action even more.
Advertising by law schools is not per se bad/wrong, however it smells fishy if one is ranked higher because of placing those ads!
Please get this thing into your head that law schools are not made for Zia Mody and Cyril Shroff. May be for NLU grads placement is the ultimate objective, but not for the rest of the 890+ law schools in the country.
I agree with few NUJS students that it takes time to make name and fame in litigation and politics. So, come after 15 years or so and then participate in India Today ranking. Better find a magazine which will rank you based on your demand in the so called "market".
One more thing, if you ommit NRI quota candidates and SC/ST candidates then their remain a handful of quality students at NUJS.
Firstly, you didnt complain previously because you were placed at a higher rank.(I remember NUJS students calling NLUs as IITs of law).
And secondly, you have never ignored these rankings. Now its time for you to ignore these rankings and show some maturity.
Thats a disgusting comment to make and displays your prejudices against SC/ST students. What makes you think that SC/ST students cannot be quality students. Stop generalising and think liberal
I have respect for those who crack the exam without reservation , otherwise I have nothing against SCs/STs and I firmly believe that they should be provided with special training and coaching to take CLAT.
why you wanna be dependent? and also tell me 1 magazine or company from whom you will trust the ranks.
Nujs is doing as their wish, let them do....its a popularity trick by all colleges/magazines/news channels/etc these days. GET A LIFE COLLEGE FRIENDS....
so guys, forget these things and go ahead.....discuss on legal issues and all, it will help!!
One national law school take NRI without entrance. You can check the prospectus of that college, cant take name. Just to pay NRI fees. So whats that?
Its just go in the history of 1995, when in 1 national law school, entrance paper got leaked through professor.
Anyway I dont compare colleges....its up 2 guys only how they perform
@134: hahahahahahaha....good joke! :-)
@135: Very true. Totally agree with you :-)
@ 139: thanks, Noojie.
Propreitor,
Beta Bahu & Co,
Advocates & Solicitors,
New Delhi
@ 123 & 129: U NUTS?
@ 124 – Read about it, I was shocked. Aren’t we the victims of media?
@ 125: U HALF NUTS? IIPM is no way better than ISB or IIM-A, B, C
@ 126: 112 is mentally challenged. It is futile to explain him/her anything.
@ 132 who so cynical? Did your gf elope with your best friend? (assuming that you had them at least for some time)
@ 136: good research? No wonder those 2 bills have been so perfectly drafted!!! How wonderful!!!
@ 144 – true & I can vouch for your statement
@ Rest we Noojies want to bring the curtain down on the lies and suppression of material facts by India today & Outlook. PLEASE READ THE LETTER. NUJS is not saying to rank itself higher because it has good placements. NUJS is asking for verification of data. Its asking that data be revealed. It is challenging the methodology. Its the magazines who are rating colleges on placements. Although students are well aware of the rankings & reputations, parents often are confused and misguided by the information in these stupid magazines. It will take at least 50 years for India to come out with something similar to Prineton Review till then lets do whatever we can. I should mention here my friends from Engineering & Medical Colleges often fume about these rankings but the problem is less prevalent there due to the overall public awareness (alongwith public craze) about medical and engineering degrees.
@ 45 & 62, good observation. Lol. I guess the rankings with Colleges with hottest chicks would be like GLC, Symbi, Amity, DU, GNLU, NALSAR, RGNLU, ICFAI Dehradun, ILS, Fergusson Pun & et al. With due respect to everyone & offence to none. Remember folks - beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. :-)
Hope something comes out of it.
One more thing, you people may have written article or done moots on issues like Bhopal Gas Tragedy but these young non-greedy fellows are actually in the field and fighting against Dow Chemicals till date. Guys NUJS is no doubt recruiters' choice but the enthusiasm which these people have , you can never think of having that.
@ 162: CLAT will solve a lot of those problems, trust me.
Remember these law grads are as young as you are (although their college may be old). So, it really doesnt matter if your college is 10 yrs old or 100 yrs. India Today have shown NUJS their place and worth.
I am also into corporate law but that doesnt mean I will disregard corporate social responsibility. Infact, this the era of Green Banking dude. Banks wont finance your project if they find you causing harm to the environment or the poor section of the society by showing your monetary prowess. Unfortunately, people in our nation are less right conscious compared to people in the West because of lack of education.
And so invariably they end up recruiting from these premier national institutions because the average student from a premier institution is closer to the target of being a full-fledged lawyer. Not that they are more brilliant, etc., they are just closer to the target. If you look at the cross section of law firms in this country, from the big ones, to the smaller ones, a good part of those law firms also come from regional law schools, and they are as good or even better than the national law schools. The only thing is a law school product is more visible because they market themselves much better."
and so what if they are grabbed up by law firms? Haven't you heard of Cyril Shroff, Shardul Shroff, Zia Mody, Jyoti Sagar and the likes?
Just like you cannot compare doctors and surgeons, similarly you cannot compare law firm lawyers (corporate) and practicing lawyers.
i) he has will and determination;
ii) gets good exposure pertaining to his area of interest ( which many non-NLS students are getting through intrnshps these days)
iii) he is well-equipped with various research techniques and argumentative skills (which many non-NLS students are getting from guest faculties who come to their colleges from abroad and spend a weeks's time with the students)
grow up NUJS kids! first improve the things wrong with your college. as suggested here, your VC needs to do a lot of things.
NUJS
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