GNLU recruitments enjoy CAM, Khaitan ties, which together hire 20+GNLU recruitments enjoy CAM, Khaitan ties, which together hire 20+

GNLU Gandhinagar has seen Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas make a record 12 offers on its Day Zero of recruitments in addition to 5 pre-placement offers, bringing its total haul of 2018 accepted job offers to 30, reported Bar & Bench, citing a GNLU press release.

Khaitan & Co recruited five from GNLU, exclusively via PPO.

Trilegal was the next biggest campus recruiter after Cyril Amarchand, making four offers on Day Zero (plus one PPO), with Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas making one campus offer and two PPOs.

S&R Associates and Luthra & Luthra picked up one each via PPO.

Bar & Bench did not report on the total GNLU batch strength this year, but we understand that this is usually between 150 and 180 students (180 being the allowed maximum intake), although not all of them participate in campus recruitments. This gives GNLU a larger batch size to place than most national law schools.

If someone knows the total batch strength, please let us know in the comments and we can update the figures.

The total batch strength of GNLU’s 2016 graduating batch was 155 in 2016, which saw 24 job offers by Day Zero in 2015.

In 2016, GNLU did not disclose its Day Zero recruitments or final recruitments.

CAM, Khaitan make up majority

The two biggest recruiters, Cyril Amarchand and Khaitan & Co have close ties to GNLU.

As we had reported this week, Cyril Amarchand had recently fully-funded a professorial ethics chair for at least three years at GNLU, with Khaitan having funded a corporate law programme at GNLU.

That said, erstwhile Amarchand Mangaldas Mumbai office has always been a heavy recruiter from GNLU, having picked up 12 (including 6 PPOs) in 2015 on Day Zero. Khaitan & Co too, that year, was the third-largest recruiter having hired three (with only Amarchand Delhi having hired more, at four).

And in 2014 final recruitments, according to limited data that was press released by GNLU, the combined Amarchand Mangaldas had hired six (including 1 PPO) from GNLU, with Khaitan having hired three (including two PPOs).

2018 Day Zero Recruitments elsewhere

Day Zero figures, via GNLU press release at Bar & Bench

Offers (including rejected offers) PPOs
Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas 12 5
Khaitan & Co. 5
Trilegal 4 1
Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas 1 2
S&R Associates 1
Luthra & Luthra 1
TOTAL 17 (15 accepted offers) 15

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1
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Like +0 Object -5 CRAZY 08 Apr 17, 00:09
JAI GNLU JAI GUJARAT
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1.1
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Like +2 Object -4 Arguing the Obvious 09 Apr 17, 02:40
Kian got unnecessarily entangled into a barrage of ignorant comments over a non-issue.

CAM and Khaitan are working for profit. In a cut-throat competitive world, there is no room for charity. They will not hire undeserving or incompetent candidates and commit harakiri just because they have "ties" with someone.

Relationships in business are formed among equals and are based on give-and-take. Nobody befriends a dead dog.

Instead of feeling proud of their valued relationships with CAM and Khaitan, the mob with its mob mentality went breast-beating all over the town.

You can argue against ignorance where ignorance is despised.

You cannot argue against ignorance where ignorance is bliss.
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Like +2 Object -6 Bas Kian Gandz 08 Apr 17, 00:12
Such negative reporting. Clearly, shows the strong GNLU hatred OF LI
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2.1
Like +13 Object -8 kianganz 08 Apr 17, 00:30  interesting  controversial
Sorry, where is the negative? Please point out anything that's not facts, happy to make corrections.
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2.1.1
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Like +3 Object -9 Guest 08 Apr 17, 00:56
"The two biggest recruiters, Cyril Amarchand and Khaitan & Co have close ties to GNLU."

This takes away EVERYTHING from those who got recruited, Kian. These people worked hard for getting recruited. By putting in this one sentence, you underplayed the efforts of these students. Imagine working hard for something, achieving it and then, being told by Legally India that their efforts were no big deal, because..."CLOSE TIES". Oh, come on! It's disheartening to say the least.
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2.1.1.1
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Like +3 Object -5 CAM Insider 08 Apr 17, 15:00
Well, everyone knows that GNLU benefits from the Gujju connection! There are a few smart kids, but the primary reason GNLU gets any sort of Amarchand attention is solely due to it being in Gujarat, not with the talent being produced there.
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2.1.2
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Like +7 Object -6 #GetOveeYourselfLI 08 Apr 17, 03:36  controversial
Every new article ever written about GNLU is nothing but a distorted version of facts.
When NALSAR places 28 out of a batch of plus 70, it's still a remarkable feat according to you because only 30 actually sat for day zero placements.
But for GNLU there is no attempt to even try to find out the number of people who sat for placements. You shamelessly and subtly make plenty insinuations and try to ridicule all the work put in by GNLU students and then go on to ask for the batch strength. However, you make no attempt to find out how many people actually sat for placements from college.

First, you manipulate the MPL as much as you can and now this.

You come off less as reporters of legal news and affairs and more as whiny, grumpy kids with a grudge who constantly try to diss everything that the University and it's students achieve.
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2.1.2.2
Like +5 Object -1 ZRS 08 Apr 17, 11:54
How about not reacting with vitriol but giving back facts OR better still not reading this webpage any longer?
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Like +8 Object -6 OhReally? 08 Apr 17, 01:02  controversial
"The two biggest recruiters, Cyril Amarchand and Khaitan & Co have close ties to GNLU."

Hi, Kian! Until now, I've always supported LI with its reporting on GNLU's affairs - however critical it might be. However, I do feel that the above statement is in bad taste. With one statement, you have downplayed the efforts undertaken by the RCC of GNLU as well as created apprehensions on the capabilities of the students at the University. I fail to understand how CAM or Khaitan establishing chairs at the University, has ANY correlation with the recruitments. The establishment of such chairs at the University demonstrates the firm belief that corporate firms have in the capabilities of GNLU students. CAM, Khaitan and Trilegal have always recruited in large numbers from GNLU - which shows how well alumni of GNLU performed at these firms.

So maybe you could CTFO and not draw parallels when there exist none?

PS- It would be far easier for you to draw such parallels with NLUJ and Luthra, maybe? *cough* lesser pay to GNLU students *cough* *cough* undue favours to NLUJ students *cough* *cough* a highly discriminatory internship process *cough*
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Like +5 Object -5 Guest 08 Apr 17, 01:06  controversial
CAM hardly pays freshers. Plus they over hire and dont have enough work.
Like seriously you rather be unemployed than work with CAM as a fresher
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Like +8 Object -5 Guest 08 Apr 17, 01:14  controversial
Hello, LI!

I'd like to quickly summarize your attempt at journalism (a.k.a. alternative facts) with the following pointers:

1. Yes, we do have close ties with some of the most reputed firms of this country, like CAM and Khaitan & Co., and we take pride in that fact. But isn’t that what every University strives to do? Somehow that seems to stand out as a factor in our case unlike in the case of other NLUs, so much so that it must be mentioned in different ways and manners to almost imply that we’d never manage such numbers minus the “close ties”. Or did you mean to say that the Firms favor us enough to overlook potentially better students from other Universities? I doubt the numbers really suggest so.

2. Didn’t you guys recently report that “Law firms’ strong interest in hiring at NLS and NLU Delhi on Saturday suggests that law firms are predicting good business in 2018”? Doesn’t seem to apply to us, I guess. We just strive on “close ties”, after all.

3. Somehow most of the overrated online news agencies seem to see Day Zero as the end all game of a University’s need and capability to place its students. Batch strengths are conveniently yet strategically highlighted to shortsightedly imply that students at NLUs can just not have ambitions beyond the handful number of offers any set of Firms can possibly make (on the basis of factors like their retention rate, expansion plans, etc.; since I wasn’t sure you’d know what these things really are). It is quite so easily forgotten that law students are still capable of actively aspiring to litigate, or pursue higher studies, or appear for competitive exams, or even aim for a career in a tier II firm for a spectrum of reasons. Somehow, those numbers never seem to matter. Seems like someone fits the bill of an overrated online news agency, after all.

4. Thanks to you guys, NLUs are increasingly losing out on its talent pool which would find the motivation to pursue other career goals in law, given the overly emphasized importance of Day Zero (only) in a student’s life.

Now we’d all hope to see you make an improvement on your 2017 performance, won’t we?
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Like +0 Object -1 Gujju 08 Apr 17, 01:26
These are hilarious!
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Like +14 Object -2 SCAM 08 Apr 17, 01:31  interesting  top rated
Would love to see you highlight the "close ties" between NLUJ and Luthra.
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Like +4 Object -1 Guest 08 Apr 17, 01:32
Gianz, the tone and tenor of your reporting reeks of bias and gives a sorry picture of LI. Can you please take a course on reporting from Bar and Bench? That'll be helpful. Thanks.
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Like +4 Object -1 Guest 08 Apr 17, 01:35
Kian, can you also stop using the word "record" irresponsibly? Amarchand had recruited 14 people way back in 2011!
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Like +1 Object -1 PurvaPhadke 08 Apr 17, 01:47
Come on Legally India, how about you actually acknowledge the hard work students have put in tirelessly and actually appreciate merit where due. This is not cool at all. Trying to get that fancy eye-catching headline isn't going to sell your media. How about you'll stick to facts instead of conspiracy theories.

Try being a responsible reporter of information. For once.
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Like +5 Object -3 Guest 08 Apr 17, 02:07
Objective Reporting for your reference: http://barandbench.com/rectracker-15-gnlu-students-placed-day-zero-15-ppos/
Read.this and you will get to know the difference between objective and your anti-GNLU and inherently biased reporting.

What's with 150ish students??

What's with "close ties"? Why are you becoming a conspiracy theorist?

For PPOs and day zero placements (i.e. till April 7, 2017), GNLU (with a total of 30 accepted offers) was better than
1. NALSAR (27)
2. NLUD (20)

and just behind NLS (33). Also, this is excluding the upcoming recruitment week which will see participation from multiple other firms.

#GetOverYourselfLI
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Like +1 Object -2 GNLU student 08 Apr 17, 02:18
So much for objective reporting, do a comparison of other articles on law school recruitment and compare it with this others. Close ties are what get us recruitment. Good stufff
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Like +1 Object -3 Meera Manoj 08 Apr 17, 03:10
This is such biased reporting and it isnt the first time. By needlessly bringing in "close ties" and the Chairs that Khaitan and CAM are funding you have implied that this is why we got so many PPOs. Great job undermining the efforts of our 4th years. I see that you felt no need to make such comparisons and speculations while reporting NLU-Ds and NLS's figures. Be it bashing GNLU students lack of human rights (without consulting ANY students), unfairly awarding us points in the MPL, constant negative coverage while omitting positive achievements of our faculty and students (I notice NLS lack of permanent faculty was not covered till date while GNLU's recruitment process is subject to some sort of smear campaign). THIS is the last straw. Get over yourselves LI.
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Like +11 Object -7 kianganz 08 Apr 17, 05:05  controversial
Wow, that blew up unexpectedly.

What's the problem exactly? Historically CAM and Khaitan were some of the first law firms to visit GNLU and they've kept it up, it's impossible not to draw that conclusion from the stats. Both also have invested financially in GNLU, which is rare at NLUs.

I find that very interesting and topical, particularly in light of the good news this week we reported on the cam chair.

And why would that not be a good thing that they manage to pick up so many from GNLU? Surely that should be a mark of quality and pride to some extent?

Sure, it might be nice to spread the risk a bit between recruiters, but the fact is that most law schools are heavily reliant on CAM for the majority of placements these days.

In short, I really don't understand the anger, but feel free to explain if you like, but preferably with facts rather than ad hominem.

Peace n love,
Kian
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14.1
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Like +0 Object -2 Hmmmm 08 Apr 17, 08:47
Hey Kian.


The law firms might have invested in GNLu etc etc. But to be fair, you must admit the entire article read extremely negatively.

You are not only undermining the work and quality of the students at GNLU but if you didn't realise, you are insulting and undermining the quality and decisions of two of the most influential firms in the country. These firms are, whether you believe it or not, competent enough to recruit the best of the best.

The 30 placed students worked their asses off and don't deserve such negative journalism. Neither do the firms for that matter.


The decent thing to do would be to leave any of your problems with GNLu out of your journalism.
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14.1.1
Like +7 Object -3 kianganz 08 Apr 17, 10:30
Guys, please caaalm down... There was absolutely nothing said in the entire article against whether students worked their ass off or not or whether they are deserving or not, and there literally wasn't a single insult.

Not a single denigration, intentional or otherwise, has been made of a single individual who's got a job offer here.

And look at our NLU Delhi stories every year: they get a mention nearly every year that their recruitments are unusually strong because of their locational advantage in Delhi. Yet, I've literally never heard an NLU Delhi student complain about our coverage, or say that we imply NLU D students don't deserve it or didn't work their asses off.

Do you really, hand on heart, think that a law firm's prior relationship with a law school has no impact or is not interesting or relevant to mention? CAM and Khaitan have clearly long liked GNLU grads (with the former even having a GNLU partner right now, and an Ahmedabad office, which is unique amongst the top tier firms).

That creates a virtuous spiral: they see good intakes from GNLU in previous years and find some who even want to stay in Ahmedabad, and say, hey, let's get some more interns from GNLU this year, they were good last year. As more GNLU interns enter, more of them are likely to get job offers.

How do you guys think NLS or any of the other older NLUs have done it, except by building up a relationship and brand with recruiters? Khaitan, for instance, long used NLIU as a recruiting ground due to their prior good experience there.

Furthermore, CAM got there in the early years, recognising the availability of talent, when there was a bit less competition going on from other firms, and has since doubled down on GNLU.

I know Day Zero celebrations are fresh on your mind, and some students would have maybe preferred a copy paste of the press release, but we didn't have the full press releases so decided to add some value and spend a bit of time to do some analysis of the figures, which I think are very interesting and should be a template for other younger NLUs.
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14.2
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Like +6 Object -3 An attempt to explain 08 Apr 17, 10:36
Kian,

This is how it looks on Facebook.


Your GNLU image with the text - "GNLU recruitments enjoy CAM, Khaitan ties, which together hire 20+"

This seems to imply to most GNLUites and impartial observers that you are saying that the 20+ recruitments were because of these ties and not because the students deserve these jobs. It seems to undermine student's hardwork by implying that they were recruited at GNLU due to extraneous considerations and that but for these ties they would not have been recruited.


Secondly, GNLUites do not deny that CAM and Khaitan have been long term recruiters and that they have previously recruited heavily as well. You are right to point to those figures. However, it seems that LI is unfairly targetting GNLU because LI chose not to highlight other lawschool's links with their recruiters.

Were the 4 Trilegal acceptances at NLSIU Day Zero because of Trilegal sponsoring their moot? Was the A&O vacation scheme because of the A&O chair in NLS?

Yes, there's an A&O chair at NLS. Read - http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/services/education/nlsiu-first-law-school-with-int-financial-law-chair/articleshow/1998833.cms

Thirdly, highlighting 150-ish batch strength seems to imply that the recruitments are low in percentage terms. GNLUites are surprised that while you have sought inputs on the batch strength, you have not asked for the number opting to be a part of the recruitment process which would be at better basis to calculate the percentage figures on.
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14.3
Like +8 Object -1 Lalit Panda 08 Apr 17, 11:11  interesting
There certainly is truth in your reasoning. No point in being butt hurt over statistics. GNLU's batch size and relationships most likely drive up recruitment offers and it's rich for students to think it's unfair to say so when exceptional and deserving students in other colleges may be having to face the fallout. #GetOverYourselfGNLU

But I do know that recruits from this batch are quite deserving and it was impossible to read this piece without thinking that batch size and relationships were the *primary* drivers. Please avoid causal references till you have a bigger picture. Journalism continues to require a human touch and you would have done well to reserve your trigger-happy imputations for a comparative piece. Be happy with us for now. Also consider the internal dynamics of firms where recruiters might be noting, perhaps, that GNLUites are joining as A0s without an overt sense of entitlement to being there.

Do you enjoy it when people refer to your coverage of the BCI and the recent lawyer strikes as "nit-picky" and driven by a "bad relationship"? It's true you seemed nit-picky and you do have a bad relationship with the buggers but that's not the whole picture. Your coverage and analysis of those issues were the most thorough and balanced available anywhere and it's a shame that imputations of grudges might be harming how you are perceived.

Piece n luv,
Panda.
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14.3.2
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Like +4 Object -1 kianganz 08 Apr 17, 11:41
Thanks Panda, very sensible comment.

I am honestly surprised every year by how much controversy and personal rage some of our law school articles attract every year.

Maybe we should have a big disclaimer above every law school article saying: "Students, we almost universally think you are great, and have nothing whatsoever against you and wish you well."

More seriously though, I understand where you're coming from and there was no intention to say that batch size and relationship were the primary drivers. It's obviously a much more complicated relationship than that.

Anyway, for the record, again: we are very happy for all students, here's hoping many more of you will get law firm jobs and partnerships soon.

Regarding being nit-picky - yes, we generally try to pick on those who deserve being picked on and whom no one else picks on. Unfortunately, just picking from recent stories, I don't see any other publication having reported on GNLU's admin issues (including, somehow, an utter blackout on a rather damaging CAG report), NLS having had faculty issues, the BCI having been corrupt (there was barely a whisper from national and legal media on 3 BCI members jailed for taking bribes for instance), or the BCI's flip-flopping on the law commission and strikes, or NUJS admin issues. So yes, if that makes us nit-picky, then I'll proudly be a nit. :)

Love n piece,
K
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14.3.2.1
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Like +2 Object -0 Lalit Panda 08 Apr 17, 19:09
More power to you on those!
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Like +0 Object -1 GNLU student 08 Apr 17, 08:10
Are you serious? Why is it that achievement not reflected in your article like it was for nls and other colleges? We've literally doubled our placements and that would not be mentioned in the article?
It's impossible not to draw that gnlu got so many recruitments BECAUSE they have close ties with these firms? These firms have recruited quite a bit from other colleges also, they recruit from gnlu not because of their close ties but because we perform well at these internships, and take our recruitments very seriously. It has nothing to do with close ties that any of these firms have and it's so shameful that you would discredit students' achievement like this.
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Like +1 Object -1 Raghab 08 Apr 17, 08:13
Disgusting reporting
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Like +3 Object -1 Biased Kian 08 Apr 17, 08:58
As rightly explained by a facebook user, Sameer Bhat:

What Legally India says: “GNLU's batch strength is usually between 150 and 180 students… This gives GNLU a larger batch size to place than most national law schools.”

What LI Doesn’t say: More students to offer for recruitments does not mean more offers/placements. A firm does not go for proportional recruitment from law schools. Recruitment is a business decision taken after considering various factors (mostly a firm’s business prospects) and the number of students that a law university has to offer for recruitments is not a factor at all.

What LI says: "The two biggest recruiters, Cyril Amarchand and Khaitan & Co have close ties to GNLU."

What LI Doesn’t say: GNLU has close ties with Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas & Khaitan & Co. because of the quality of students it provides to them through recruitments. GNLU students have added (and continue to add) value to firms like Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas & Khaitan & Co. as a result of their merit, intelligence, hard-work and professionalism, and have proven to be assets to these firms. These firms recognise this fact by recruiting more students from GNLU every year.

What LI says: “NLU Delhi Day Zero: 20 jobs in bag from 7 top-paying law firms”, “NLS Bangalore 2018 batch bags 34 Day Zero jobs, including record 19 PPOs”, “NALSAR Hyderabad Day Zero yields 28 jobs, including an early Rs 33 lakh TC with A&O” and “GNLU improves on 2015 Day Zero performance, places 30 out of 150ish, with 50% going to Cyril Amarchand”

What LI Doesn’t say: As per the information available about Campus Recruitment 2018 (as on April 8, 2017), NLSIU Bangalore has bagged a total of 34 offers from 8 firm/organisations, NLU Delhi has bagged a total of 20 offers from 7 top law firms while NALSAR has got a total of 27 accepted offers from 7 top law firms. On the other hand, GNLU has accepted a total of 30 offers from 6 top law firms. Despite lesser number of firms visiting GNLU for campus recruitments, it has a higher number of offers than NLU Delhi and NALSAR. NLSIU is ahead of GNLU just by 4 offers at 34. It is pertinent to note that NLSIU (30) is 16 years older than GNLU (14). With an age difference of more than a decade and a half, the difference in Campus Recruitment 2018 between NLSIU and GNLU is just 4.

What LI Says: Our reporting is balanced, independent and accurate. We fact-check published stories. We are editorially independent and do not serve to advance one point of view over another.
What WE Say: #GetOverYourselfLI #GNLUSlays
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17.1
Like +6 Object -1 kianganz 08 Apr 17, 10:53  interesting
Actually, I disagree.

Batch size of 150 is actually very relevant for 2 reasons:

i) Yes, a law firm is able to recruit a greater number from a larger batch due to the bell curve distribution of 'quality'. If you assume that firms such as CAM tend to pick the top percentiles of a group of students, that top percentile will be a greater number in a larger group.

ii) A group of 1,000 random people, is more likely to have 10 geniuses in it, than a similarly selected group of 10. Therefore, you'd expect a law firm going to a campus with lots of students to be able to theoretically select a greater number.

The reason we went into batch size in particular, is because it appeared from the Bar & Bench article and press release (a copy of which we were not sent by the GNLU administration), that no batch size was disclosed (in contrast to every other RCC, which does disclose batch sizes).

In part that's understandable - institutions like Jindal, GNLU and NUJS too, with larger batch sizes, have a very hard time finding jobs for every student than somewhere like NLIU Bhopal or NLS have, with much smaller batches.

But in GNLU's case (note, it is the admin, not the students I'm talking about), it has had a track record of fudging recruitments. This, for instance, is a negative article from 2014, and I think it is entirely justified, in light of GNLU having press released a distorted picture and having refused to confirm any further details there: http://www.legallyindia.com/lawschools/gnlu-keeps-placement-statistics-secret-20140924-5087


Re ties to law firms, please read my comment at 13.1.1 above, explaining how I believe law firms work - yes, a greater batch strength is an advantage when it comes to recruiting an absolute greater number (but not in terms of finding placements for a greater percentage of a batch).


Finally, re GNLU figures being comparable to NLSIU or Nalsar, I don't think it's comparing like with like. Yes, GNLU figures this year are incredible and have improved quite a bit on last year. But there's also a huge batch size, and there are no vacation schemes yet, and the uplift is due mostly to one firm, CAM. If CAM, for argument's sake, were to stop hiring so many next year, this could disproportionately affect GNLU Day Zero.

So, I think it would have been a disservice to CLAT aspirants not to mention the large batch size or to say GNLU figures are better than Nalsar's - the current figures mathematically suggest that the average Nalsar graduate is still more likely to get a top tier job than a GNLU grad, but I'm not saying and have never said that GNLU grads don't deserve the jobs they get and that they worked incredibly hard for.
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17.1.1
Like +4 Object -0 CAM Insider 08 Apr 17, 15:39
Bang on, Kian - don't listen to these overly sensitive kids. "Objective reporting" doesn't mean you just state numbers and leave it that; Kian has validly examined and reported that GNLU benefits overwhelmingly from its Amarchand connection. He hasn't said that the kids don't deserve it.

If everything you're said is true and you're so proud of your college's record, how is CAM recruiting 17 of the 32/34 not logically leading to the conclusion that GNLU hasn't benefitted from its relationship with the firm? If GNLU kids are so amazing, where's AZB? Are the other firms stupid to collectively recruit so few?
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17.1.2
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Like +0 Object -0 WhatAreYouSmoking 08 Apr 17, 21:43
Your approach with the batch size is wrong. CAM and SAM consider only TOp 20 from a batch. It doesn't matter whether the batch size is 70 or 150ish as you are assuming. Top 20 remains top 20. GNLU has an excellent pool of students who know how to convert this opportunity into an offer.
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17.2
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Like +0 Object -0 Joker 08 Apr 17, 20:47
What we Say: Stop being so sensitive and slave away your miserable lives as corporate slaves. :)
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Like +2 Object -3 GNLU student 08 Apr 17, 10:28
Your headline for NALSAR with 28 jobs was "well done NALSAR"
I'm so disappointed with LI more than anything with this recent biasness in their journalism.
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18.1
Like +6 Object -1 kianganz 08 Apr 17, 10:36  interesting
That's not a headline, by the way, it's a Facebook share. The GNLU figures are lined up to be shared around 1230 on FB, and the share text there reads: "Great job(s) GNLU students! Well done and congratulations to all!"

There's really no bias, we love GNLU students (other than maybe the ones getting personal and shouting at me :)
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Like +2 Object -0 GNLU student 08 Apr 17, 10:31
Since you've been looking for our specific problems with this article, here's a super useful article for you by GNLU student Chethana Venkatraghavan,

https://m.facebook.com/notes/chethana-venkataraghavan/news-sensationalism-in-legal-reporting/10155211729977059/
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19.1
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Like +0 Object -0 kianganz 08 Apr 17, 10:58
Thanks for sharing, will respond to that directly in due course...
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19.2
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Like +3 Object -0 kianganz 08 Apr 17, 11:59
For those not on Facebook, here's my response to Chethana's well-intentioned criticism of our article:

Quote:
Hi Chethana, thanks for taking the time out to write such a thoughtful and balanced comment.

I think you understand where we're coming from fairly well. Yes, there has historically been an issue of opacity with respect to the GNLU admin and recruitments (in previous years, we got point blank refusal to even get final recruitment figures, and GNLU has had a history of trying to spin the media with selective press releases).

Take the 2014 press release of 'final' recruitments, for instance, which cherry-picked 5 law firms' job offers. http://www.legallyindia.com/.../gnlu-keeps-placement...

Or Bimal Patel's press conference in 2014 to release a few positive snippets of a report that was otherwise rather critical of GNLU's admin: http://www.legallyindia.com/.../gnlu-director-bimal...

As such, when the GNLU admin press releases something only to Bar & Bench, which has historically only ever written very friendly stories about GNLU's administration, and does not mention the batch size (which is very probably intentional) then it makes me feel that the batch size should be specifically mentioned. Yes, we're adversarial that way, but that applies across the board, not just to GNLU.

First off, let me state that absolutely nothing in the article was intended to denigrate any student or lessen the work they do to get those jobs, or imply that they are somehow not deserving, and I think it's slightly disingenuous to imply that or interpret it in that way (and I deeply regret if any GNLU students were in fact hurt by this or interpreted it in that way).

Now, when you say that GNLU Day Zeros were covered more critically than other law schools', you probably have a point: we delved into the GNLU figures and history a bit more, but mostly because I feel we'd have done a disservice to law aspirants by simply copy pasting what the GNLU administration wanted us to publish (in light of their prior conduct with respect to spinning the media).

A batch of 150 can be a strength (in that law firms will find a greater pool of talent to hire from), but it's also a potential liability, in that it makes 100% placements very difficult to achieve (which the administration realises, so they have usually preferred not highlighting this). The average student at NLS or Nalsar is still more likely to get a top-tier job than at GNLU, purely because of numbers. NUJS, which has a larger batch size, is also finding it a bit more challenging to place 100%, I believe.

Furthermore, the link between CAM and GNLU is really interesting and backed by figures, but it's not intended to be a "conspiracy theory". In part, CAM has a Gujarat office, which undoubtedly contributes here (also, GNLU has had its first ever big-law partner at CAM btw, in the Gujarat office, for which, congratulations!). Plus, CAM believes in GNLU (and its students too) enough to fund an ethics chair there for 3 weeks. Again, super interesting, and not at all negative.

Plus, CAM-GNLU have created a virtuous spiral: CAM has historically seen good intakes from GNLU in previous years (having been the first to recruit from there) and find some students who even want to stay in Ahmedabad, which is great for CAM. So CAM says, hey, let's get us some more interns from GNLU this year, they were good last year. And as more GNLU interns enter, more of them are likely to get job offers.

And so, the fact that CAM has now recruited super heavily from GNLU is worth pointing out, and it's nothing negative, and I really regret that students have taken it so personally or perceived it as such.

Anyway, appreciate you taking the time out to post this in such considered language (unlike some of the more abusive comments that have been left in LI comments :)), and hope this clarifies our approach somewhat.

Best wishes for your future career and for all GNLU students,
Kian
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Like +4 Object -3 GetoveryourselfLI 08 Apr 17, 10:51
Oh yes Kian. Play dumb. Compare this article to LI's coverage of NALSAR, NLS and NLU-D. For them you mentioned how many people sat for recruitments. For us you link it to batch strength. 30 out of 150 sounds like a bad number and you know it. So does nalsar's 27 out of 120 students. But for them you highlighted that only 30 sat for placements and its a great feat.
Your headline for other law schools had - numbers of domestic placements and international placements. THATS IT. Professional reporting. You felt no need to speculate on each firms' past or current links with the university. You may pass it off in the comments sections as "something to be proud of" but you arent fooling anyone. You have implied bias in the article. Clearly. Deliberately. Repeatedly. Why not mention it in the article then huh? Your level of praise is this - "GNLU sees improvement" v other law schools "break records". FYI this was record breaking.Your credibility ( not much to begin with) has hit an all time low with the GNLU student community.
CAM has traditionally recruited from all these places. Are you telling me that you couldnt find a pattern in NLS established since 1986, or nalsar or nlu- d all older than our NLU? Go on. Deny this also. Noone said your facts are false. Instead you have cleverly weaved together a bunch of true facts to subtly make misleading, petty, disgusting insinuations. Shame on you LI.Taking away from the hard work of committed young people for your own propaganda. Shame on you for dampening their euphoria with your sleazy reporting. Shame on you. Miserable. undeniable. shame.
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Like +5 Object -2 LOL 08 Apr 17, 15:40
Also compare your figures to other colleges - 50, FIFTY per cent of your jobs are from CAM. Obviously, the situation is different from other colleges. That is what led to the difference, not some bias that Kian has. Stop with the victim complex and accept that CAM's generosity has led to your college having decent figures.
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Like +2 Object -2 Guest 08 Apr 17, 11:09
Fellow commentors don't get pissed at Legally India, please. They are one of the best when it comes to their job, that is culturing fad. There is no denial that CAM, Khaitan do invest in GNLU and obviously they were your heaviest recruiters, that's because like most other stakeholders of an university they have invested too and they trust the talent they are investing in.

Again the logic behind they investing in us and GNLU not investing (an inch of effort to let them have the numbers) in Legally India is same, "Invest on talent you trust."

Love.
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Like +4 Object -5 Guest 08 Apr 17, 12:05
Guys cumon. Atleast acknowledge the fact that all firms refused to pay gnlu students at par with other top nlus.
CAM and Luthra and Khaitan every year pay half the package they offer to NLS and other law schools.
The highest package offered this year was just 10 lakhs by CAM at gnlu.
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Like +1 Object -0 kianganz 08 Apr 17, 12:06
I don't think that's true, is it? Luthra used to have different salaries for different law schools, but I think they stopped that practice a few years ago.

Can anyone confirm?
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Like +0 Object -1 ChutiyaGanz 08 Apr 17, 13:11
Of course it's not TRUE. Now please don't bug all the Managing Partners of law firms. Will you?
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Like +1 Object -2 An attempt to explain 08 Apr 17, 13:20
Luthra still has lawschool based salaries. Other firms DO NOT.
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Like +1 Object -2 Badshah 08 Apr 17, 12:59
What are you smoking, bro? Is 18, not 10. Or did the 8 look like a 0 to you?
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Like +0 Object -2 DFVC 08 Apr 17, 12:06
Any tom-dick-harry now a days create blogs...... that doesnt qualify him/her to be a responsible journalist or publisher. ready to use blog themes are available in 3000-4000 rupees and some jobless creatures try to meet their both ends by running shitty blogs. GROW UP "man" (?)..... if a carpenter create a blog, that doesnt mean he's a journalist.... hahahah
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Like +3 Object -4 Guest 08 Apr 17, 12:32
Luthra has not stopped that practice. It still pays different salaries depending on the law school one belongs to.
Further, even CAM has that practice. students at Gnlu tried to push CAM to pay them at par with top law schools but CAM did not agree. CAM pays half the salary to recruits from GLC , gnlu, and other lower rung nlus
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Like +1 Object -0 Badshah 08 Apr 17, 13:02
You know you can be sued for defamation, right? You have absolutely no idea of the actual figures, but are spreading baseless rumours as per your will and fancy. Your acts have repercussions, don't be stupid.
PS: Unless CAM is paying 36 to freshers from other NLUs, I'm pretty sure GNLU students have the same salary as others.
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Like +0 Object -1 Oh god 08 Apr 17, 14:01
18? Hahahah dude had you said 12. Your comment would be 100% right. Apart from the figure you are right. Gnlu get paid same
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Like +0 Object -0 Badshah 08 Apr 17, 16:16
In pretty sure of my sources. 12 would be the right figure for five years ago. Maybe you should update yourself?
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Like +1 Object -0 Gary Cohn 08 Apr 17, 13:07
CAM does not have any such practice
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Like +2 Object -0 Llloyd 08 Apr 17, 13:13
I can confirm that Luthra still pays differential salaries. It is the only top tier firm to still do so. The statement made by the guest is incorrect and full of shit.
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Like +0 Object -0 Guest 08 Apr 17, 13:53
How does CAM pay? I know that in Nujs and Nlu-d they have offered 12l with no bonus
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Like +2 Object -0 Marty Lipton 08 Apr 17, 14:35
CAM does not pay 18 to freshers. Did they revise pay? To the best of my knowledge, it is still 15-16
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Like +4 Object -0 Marty Lipton 08 Apr 17, 15:08
CAM does not pay 18 to freshers. What is Badhsah smoking. Only TTA pays 18. KCO pays the second highest. It is few lakhs below that
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Like +1 Object -0 Marty Lipton 08 Apr 17, 15:13
No firm pays 18. Only associates joining TTA can get so much. Kian can confirm this?
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Like +6 Object -0 Non GNLU 08 Apr 17, 15:15  interesting
When I read this from a totally neutral, I didn't think that LI was bashing GNLU. I mean GNLU people could think because LI has been really critical of them in past but guys really this really doesn't seem critical. I would be happy to go to a college with such strong ties with law firms.
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Like +6 Object -0 MetaphoricallyJobless 08 Apr 17, 15:22  interesting
So, is the entire batch of 150ish online and bashing this article via comments? Sheer volume and length of comments don't help your case. Nobody is disparaging the students. Anyone who sees the breakup of offers notices CAM and Khaitan's share and may very well find it unusual. Are you saying it's rather common for just 2 recruiters to take most of the pool?
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Like +1 Object -1 Okay 09 Apr 17, 10:19
Then compare it with the proportion of offers made by SAM to NLS students and Luthra offers to NLUJ students. You don't think that's similar to this situation. CAM made 11 offers to NUJs as well, a sizable portion.
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Like +0 Object -0 NLS 09 Apr 17, 16:41
Umm, what's the connection between SAM and NLS?
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Like +4 Object -4 Sweetie 08 Apr 17, 20:43
Ah. Gnlu students
You people are so dumb. This is a good article, with correct analysis. The biasness if any plays into your favour, as in India, it is extremely rare for a law school to have openly good ties with its industry partners.
Be glad. Enjoy the stats and move on.
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Like +12 Object -0 BigLaw lawyer 08 Apr 17, 21:51  interesting  top rated
Good Lord. Guys, you really need to loosen up. Once you work for a BigLaw firm, you will look back at this and laugh at how and why you regarded these law firm jobs so highly.
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