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examination-hall_by_comedy-nose"I don't think students are against the exam, only against the waiting period," says solicitor general and Bar Council of India (BCI) chairman Gopal Subramanium, who is the architect of the proposed all India bar exam. The exam remains controversial because this year's final year students would not be able to practice law until 2011. Legally India asks the BCI chief some of the questions that have preoccupied students.

In a 30 June comment on an article on Legally India Subramanium addressed students directly and wrote: "The bar exam is a very major step to bring in a measure of equal respect for professionals amongst themselves and a level playing field that people who have passed the bar exam will be looked upon with added respect. The image of the profession needs to be upped because we have unwittingly lost commercial business to overseas lawyers for failure to modernise and be forward looking."

"I have no vested interests or personal gain from this position," he later tells Legally India in an interview. "I am trying to offer sincere leadership for change. I am glad that students can democratically participate in my thought processes. I can take their views into account but ultimately I take responsibility for the decision."

"More than anything else students must know that I am investing my energy for the future of legal education including the legal profession for the next 10-15 years. I only wish I could cry out and tell the students that earmarking their achievements in India is so necessary for them to regain their professional turf."

"I am also taking the law students on board and trying to engage with them. I'm in touch with them on the telephone. I said to them, you've got to hear my point of view too, why is it that I think the bar exam is important and why I think we have to go through with this."
Edited excerpt of Subramanium's 30 June comment on Legally India story

"Dear friend, [...]

I am not in the least intending to harm anyone's professional career. On the contrary I need to tell you the truth about the exam and I have done so in a webcast which appears in the Bar Council website.[...]

"As far as the exam is concerned I want you to know that I consulted a wide range of academics, scholars and a lot many people to bring under one roof a qualified professional community. These colleges had different times for declaration of results.

"If I had chosen a month after 15th June, only select law school students would have been able to sit for the exam. The rest of the students would have been left out in the cold. Further the enrolment committees do not sit overnight since there is a great deal of paperwork involved. That took us to September. The course material had to be made available to the students and they are being printed in 8 different languages. We got special academics to look at and design the course material and the sample question papers. The exam is intended to test knowledge 60% and reasoning 40%.the exams are going to be held in proper fool proof conditions. Since we thought that every student must have at least 6 weeks with course material the date got pushed to December. The logistical supports are in place. In fact, I anticipate that you will enjoy the exam and recommend that we should have more exams.

"Well charity begins at home, I have a son like you who too has to clear the exam. I understand the anger but I want you to appreciate that we are behind schedule in lawyer reforms and I am like Randy Pausch with a limited time (my term is 2 years).

I sit the whole day reading mails and trying to see how all of us can come together and forge a mutual understanding."

Warm regards and best wishes to each one of you, Gopal

Q: Why not hold the exam in early 2011?

"There will always be a gap of one or two months given that enrolment is a bit of a tedious process. This year is a bit difficult," admits Subramanium.

"The short question is, should you allow [graduating law students] to practice without the exam? If you are calling this a certificate of licence, no."

But he acknowledges that this can cause some hardships for students this year and that concessions could be made. "I understand that," he says, "but the best I could consider is it is mandatory to clear [the exam] with permission to practice until then."

"I think the resistance would go if [graduates were] allowed to practice, subject to clearing the exam."

"The BCI is holding general discussions on this," he says, but adds: "It's just an idea on the outer fringe of my mind – I don't think it would be right. It would be very difficult really, it will be awkward doing it for just for one year – you'd have to do it next year as well. There are pluses and minuses."

"From next year onwards the delay will be much less," he predicts.

Subramanium told Legally India that the exam would not preclude lawyers working under seniors and that the only question is that 2010 graduates who have not cleared the exam can not act as a lawyer by signing opinions or appearing before court.

But postponing the first exam until 2011 is not an option, according to Subramanium. "That would be disastrous - that would just now mean it never happens."

Q: Do you fear vested interests preventing the exam from happening at all?

"Absolutely true – there are too many vested interests," says Subramanium, who started his two-year term as chairman of the BCI only in April 2010. "It is quite complex – we are not dealing with frontal attacks on reform – we are making latent attacks on reforms."

"It is disappointing to see that many academics against it."

Some academics are against a body like the BCI, which has not had the best track record in the field, having too much power over legal education?
"It's a two-way argument – I agree the [BCI] track record [on education] is not very good," concedes Subramanium, "but that is no ground not to change the track record and I don't see academic track records as very good either."

"The only way change will take place is with somebody willing to take the correct choices - in collaboration with academics of course; we are not at war with each other."

"But many academics have willingly participated in all these spurious law colleges."

Q: Have the writ petitions against the bar exam made a difference?

"I am clear in my mind that it's legal and constitutional," says Subramanium. "We are planning to also get these petitions transferred to the Supreme Court because [the petitions are all] dealing with one aspect."

Q: How to enforce graduates' and lawyers' compliance with a practice ban until exam-clearance?

"No bar council anywhere in the world has got a police force – it is internal regulation substantially – but it is the ability of the regulator to persuade internal regulation where the success of the institution will count," says the BCI chairman.

"For that purpose the regulator has to be seen as attempting to regulate."

Q: Can you guarantee that law firms not disadvantage juniors for six months until they passed the bar exam?

And Subramanium's 30 June comment on Legally India, he added: "By the way no firm will revoke its offer. If there is a problem contact me."

Later he tells Legally India: "We are discussing that with SILF [the Society of Indian Law Firms] and we are sorting it out – I don't think anybody needs to have that fear."

Q: What about advocates disadvantaging juniors or paying them less?

"First of all, I don't think we have very clear guidelines about seniors paying juniors – and this has been a subject of discussions."

"Time has come to give more discussions of this subject," he says. "It needs to be looked at."

Q: What is Rainmaker doing and how was it selected to run the bar exam?

"As far as Rainmaker is concerned, it is only an assist for the BCI," says Subramanium. "I am supervising in consultation with academics the material and the formats. In fact nobody will ever know the question paper till the morning of the exam."

"We looked at many, many parties - traditional parties, IIMs and IITs but they didn't have the expertise for a law exam – I had the choice between some foreign agency which I wouldn't have liked very much and then decided to look at people who are very interested in change themselves and decided to vote. They [Rainmaker] got the vote."

"They are providing logistical support, the responsibilities are entirely that of the Bar Council," he adds. "Everything is done under our supervision and our correction."

Q: There have been objections from students that the exam was expensive and a licence for Rainmaker to make money

"I don't thinks so, it's a completely unfair statement to make against Rainmaker, just because they are different," objects Subramanium. "I don’t think the way Rainmaker has worked with me in the last two months, or at least a month, day-in-day-out justifies that.

"I think they have every right actually to run away from me, I don't think I've left them in peace at all. I've been very disciplined and very, very demanding - unrealistically demanding – and they've coped with it. I wouldn't expect anyone else to have been able to."

Subramanium also adds that the BCI had attempted to keep the cost of the exam low at Rs 1,300 per student. "Let me put it this way – we tried to bring it down as much as possible – it's not very expensive for law students."

Photo by comedynose

As far as the exam is concerned I want you to know that I consulted a wide range of academics, scholars and a lot many people to bring under one roof a qualified professional community. These colleges had different times for declaration of results.

 

If I had chosen a month after 15th June, only select law school students would have been able to sit for the exam. The rest of the students would have been left out in the cold. Further the enrolment committees do not sit overnight since there is a great deal of paperwork involved. That took us to September. The course material had to be made available to the students and they are being printed in 8 different languages. We got special academics to look at and design the course material and the sample question papers. The exam is intended to test knowledge 60% and reasoning 40%.the exams are going to be held in proper fool proof conditions. Since we thought that every student must have at least 6 weeks with course material the date got pushed to December. The logistical supports are in place. In fact, I anticipate that you will enjoy the exam and recommend that we should have more exams.

 

Well charity begins at home, I have a son like you who too has to clear the exam. I understand the anger but I want you to appreciate that we are behind schedule in lawyer reforms and I am like Randy Pausch with a limited time (my term is 2 years).

 

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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-14 03:32
[comment moderated - please resubmit comment in standard sentences, grammar and do not use SMS speak. We will republish then. -Ed]
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-14 03:39
These comments from someone with such respect in our fraternity, display a clear lack of thought behind the decision. Whats worse it that it seems to be all his personal views. Something which appeals to him, he will consider, otherwise tough luck.

I am also surprised by the responses on the gap period - some of us have been hired for the sole purpose of litigation. Regardless of whether our jobs are secure or not, we are not being able to do the work we are hired to do. Not all of us are in big firms, I work in a small organisation and the new comers are not being able to take up some of the work load, which they would have otherwise been expected to do.

As for the response on rainmaker, please note, there is not a word about how/why they were selected. Just that he is personally overseeing the consultation. Sure that makes it fair.

The cost: its not just 1,300. In Delhi its approx. 7000 + 1300
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-14 04:17
1) "Absolutely true – there are too many vested interests"
- LOL.... and what about the BCI's opposition to foreign alaw firms? no vested interests there huh?

2) "No bar council anywhere in the world has got a police force"
- true. but least they ban corrupt lawyers unlike the BCI.

3) "First of all, I don't think we have very clear guidelines about seniors paying juniors – and this has been a subject of discussions. ..."It needs to be looked at."
- Veerappa moily has copyright over this phrase and his authorship should be acknowledged

4) "I don't thinks so, it's a completely unfair statement to make against Rainmaker"
- the whole problem is that rainmaker runs LST. what if LST extends its tutorials to cover bar exams??
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 LegalPoet 2010-07-14 04:29
Rainmaker doesn't run LST, career launcher does.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-14 05:37
Rainmaker has nothing to do with LST!
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-14 07:13
please go on the rainmaker site for once they now official owns LST. wake up. also no questions as to the choice of Rainmaker as compared to other companies.
also GS's owns findings submitted to the SC by the 3 member committee's reports.
shame what a shame . we need someone from BBC hard Talk.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-14 09:15
ledekar khatam karoo yaar, Ask Mr. ____ kitna banta hai ledekar baat finish karoo lets all collect money
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-14 19:08
While the proposal to bring in bar entry exams suddenly in 2010 might sound sudden, let us not forget that there is a crying need for reform in the legal education as well as to better the image of the profession. The frustrations of the students are clearly understandable but the need of the hour is clear... Mr.Subramanian's initiative is a welcome step to ensure that the profession is changed from one of a "mass profession" to a "class profession". Let us view it from the angle of the malady it is trying to remedy rather than the personal difficulties faced by a few. We not only need a bar entry exam but an overhauling of the legal education in many colleges which are just not up to the mark!!
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-14 23:13
#6, yes, you need not write the bar exam. clearly you're clients must be a satisfied lot.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 ashisharun 2010-07-14 23:23
"I don't think students are against the exam, only against the waiting period"..... thats correct!

""I think the resistance would go if [graduates were] allowed to practice, subject to clearing the exam." - I dont really think so. While this seems to be a great plan to appease the resistance, consider the situation where somebody has filed a vakalatnama and has an important hearing tomorrow - today, that person fails the bar exam when the results are declared! What happens in such a situation? Does that person get to appear tomorrow subject to passing the exam next year? I dont think that would be an option BCI would consider since that will defeat the whole purpose of the exam. So, would that person be asked to get out of the case since he is no more a lawyer? That would be unfair to the client and the whole justice system.

There cannot be a 2-minute instant noodle solution to this situation. While the intentions of bringing reforms are welcome, the implementation is haywire. I agree that the current BCI was elected recently and didn't have time. In such a case, the first year reform should have been to mandate that all colleges finish exams by June, 2010 and declare results by 15th July - and then, when all graduating students would have passed around the same time, have a quick bar exam so that nobody suffers.

This is a reformatory method that they can still implement instead of making us wait for 6-7 months and talking about concessions that don't make any sense.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-15 00:25
Sir,
The question is still in the minds for the students of existing final year, whtether to appear or not;
more to this,On 15 July 10 all the State Bar Councils were received Applications which has still no update.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-15 00:27
there are few people who would have completed the course in 2009 and due to any reason with arrears might have cleared arrears in Feb 2010 aor Mar 2010 and for thewm if concession is given that those who had passed the exam before theBCI notification,it would bebetter.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-15 01:48
If LST does start a bar exam tutorial will there be an inquiry against the BCI and the law ministry? obviously not because they are not even accountable to god.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-15 03:41
I will not wonder if people say mr. Gopal Subramanium is now a big POLITICIAN...........
He knows he is wrong but what can he do [...]... he has made it a presstige isue now
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-15 03:43
why onlu rainmaker , there are so many law outssourcing companies why cant they can we have an answer and what is this 'vote' please explain. if BCI is a statutary body why there was no tender notification.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-15 03:46
@9 my clients are a satisfied lot, a small grammatical mistake on my part let me correct myself . "rainmaker now officially owns LST".
if you are writing the bar exams please do let me in on it?
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-15 08:12
All this talk is nonsense. Lets see how well this will fly with our Supreme Court, my guess is they would not like this on the face of it. All these whimsical ideas cannot be implemented at a minute's notice and then sit and gloat over "legal reforms". Reforms certainly take time to implement and shoddy planning is no way to go. Just an easy way for someone like Rain maker to rain money on themselves. No doubt Rainmaker is living up to its name!
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-16 02:31
It is shocking that the company which owns LST got the contract to do the bar exam. this would have been illegal in other countries because of conflict of interest but the BCI is a law unto itself.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-16 03:26
Well i am law student...and i can tell u that everyone is against the exam!!!!!!
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-16 04:11
Rainmaker is the company that owns LST?! Fancy lawyers you'll all make if you get off on making statements that have no grounding in reality. Career Launcher owns LST!! You so-called lawyers, at least visit the LST website (www.lawentrance.com/) before mouthing off. R****DS!
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-16 04:31
why is postponing the exam "disastrous". Mr. Subramanium, please give reasons. Or shall we just believe what you say because you know the best. The last I checked India was a democracy. Since you seem to welcome discussion, why dont you discuss the "disastrous" consequences of the postponement. Dont just say it.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-16 06:40
This is just ridiculous. Bring it in effect for people graduating next year as by that time everyone would have had sufficient time to set up the right mechanicms in place. This year should remain status quo. I agree change is needed but you need to fix a lot of things before you become the good samaritan. I apologise for my ignorance, but will lawyers not opting for litigation but corporate work also be required to take the exam ? Secondly, they should make special exceptions for students graduating this year who apply for judiciary later on - its unfair they lose 6 months despite having done everything right by the rule book just because someone decided to change the rule book (albeit for good), forgot to inform those affected in time and then the rule book got delayed in printing.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-16 07:50
WTF?? who is the rainmaker agent here defenfing the company? both rainmaker and LST are linked.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-16 09:03
@23 Your mother.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-16 09:08
But sir sorry so say your idea of bar exam is bad. I wonder how many of the great lawyers in Supreme Court as well as the High court (which includes many of your famed colleagues) have ever given any exam which is even remotely close to your highly-contentious & controversial (dare say farcical dream) bar exam. Sir seriously how many lawyers are there who have ever given any similar exam. But they are still doing pretty good if not great in litigation. I feel it is very unfair many of our ancestors including the legal giants have never given such exam in their life and will proably never give but we will be compelled to.
To do good only intentions wont suffice - proper planning, expected results and reasonable
methodology should be there. All changes are not reforms. There is a difference between a Mohd. Bin Tughlaq & SherShah. Sir, hope you remember that.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-16 09:15
@20 mr.sachin malhan founder of LST and Rainmaker. ring any bells anyone.
www.rainmaker.co.in/.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-16 09:45
latest news " All state bar councils are issuing licences without providing any info about bar exams or weather one can practice or not. they give the license shake your hand and say congrats you are now a advocate and can practice.
so have no free till the time your state bar council is here.
go apply at the earliest."

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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-16 22:33
There is more than fishy in this nexus of BCI and Rainmaker. Supreme Court should conduct an independent probe
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-17 00:13
Hi all,

Those casting aspersions on Rainmaker would do well to support their allegations with facts. Nothing constructive is achieved by merely alleging that something is fishy or that there is a conspiracy between Rainmaker and BCI. Is Rainmaker's competence being questioned? It seems not. Is its pedigree being questioned? Again, it seems not. Are Gopal Subramanian's (or BCI's) bonafides about wanting to bring about legal reforms in serious doubt? Apparently no. There is general consensus that legal reforms are needed.

A start has to be made somewhere. BCI is conducting the exams. Not Rainmaker. Rainmaker is only providing logistic assistance. If you are aware of any institution better placed than Rainmaker, nothing prevents you from suggesting its candidature. Perhaps the BCI may take note. All said and done, those involved are part of a historic initiative in heralding reforms of a scale unprecedented in Indian legal history. Given these responsibilities, it is foolhardy to assume that BCI and/or Rainmaker have vested interests. Whatever interest each has is public information. If someone is aggrieved, challenge that as well so that the judiciary can decide.

Those lamenting about losing six months of practice need to realize that, potentially their careers could span over half a century of which six months is just a tiny fraction. In the long run, nothing really is lost. Again, their learning will not come to a full stop because they need to take a bar entrance exam. For once, those from the non national law schools who pass the exam can even equate themselves with those from the national law schools who pass the exam, and take pride in it. Those who claim that they stand to lose their job offers because they cannot enroll need to be reminded of an anecdote where a prospective candidate, who believed had done pretty well in a job interview, was asked - "What if we do not hire you." The candidate replied "That's fine - just as you will find a better employee, I will find a better employer."

It is fashionable to complain and find fault. But whoever does, is doing so at his/her own peril. Those who will progress are the ones who will try to fit within the system. You cannot make the system fit within your needs.

Legal Dodo

p.s - I am in no way associated with Rainmaker.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-17 01:38
@24: LI it is odd how abusive posts against the BCI's critics are never censored but criticism of the BCI is always censored. Just shows your bias.

@29: "Are Gopal Subramanian's (or BCI's) bonafides about wanting to bring about legal reforms in serious doubt?"

They are very much in doubt. The BCI has opposed entry of foreign universities and foreign law firms. They have also opposed measures to bring about greater transparency in the legal profession.

"If you are aware of any institution better placed than Rainmaker, nothing prevents you from suggesting its candidature. Perhaps the BCI may take note."

LOL...When does the BCI ever listen to people? And yes theer are better organisations. How about the people who conduct teh CLAT? At least they don't own run coachign centres.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-17 05:12
@29 Are you giving bar exams? and you are lying Mr.dodo to write such a long post in Rainmaker defense? whatever they are paying you i double it.
Is sachin malhan the founder of LST and Rainmaker or not ?
the way you have replied to the posts means you know alot OR YOU ARE ONE THEM.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 kianganz 2010-07-17 05:17
Knowing Legal Dodo, I can independently confirm that Legal Dodo is not part of Rainmaker.

Also, Rainmaker and LST may have a common heritage and history, but as far as I know there is no financial or corporate relationship between the two entities anymore.

Best,
Kian
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 fatehpal singh 2010-07-17 05:50
i think a few RTIs will settle the issue and the Courts will decide the rest.

"A man willing to work, and unable to find work, is perhaps the saddest sight that fortune's inequality exhibits under the sun."
Thomas Carlyle , Chartism.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-17 06:55
Thank you, Kian. #31, you are partly right. I do know a lot.

Legal Dodo
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-17 06:59
And to add to my previous post - there are very few people alive today, who are better human beings than Sachin Malhan.

Legal Dodo
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-18 03:25
Legal dodo or do do dika whatever u are stop making a sachin malhan fan club here. Firstly i dont care who u are and what u know . If u know and have ever attended any court proceedings u should understand the court goes by what law is and not what ur dreams are. read the Advocates act and then discuss law and we really dont care abt who rainmaker is but yes prima facie a hasty move like this with no consultation with other alternatives and just by a vote system giving a vote to rainmaker rings bell. As far as sachin malhan is considered we have no doubt on his integrity because firstly we dont knw him he might be a good tutor and secondly we dont have time to knw him. Read V. Sudeer well , even u vcannot impose thios exam through post reform angle as per sec 49(1)(ah) and please no body asked u what we have to do in future so better keep ur advise to urself.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-18 03:31
What the hell is BCI doing when it has admitted that there is a lot of problem for this year students then why cant it call off soon and atleast our right to practise should be given soon . we are wasting our time .
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-18 03:35
Kian please let us knw what really is happening several state bar councils are saying that they dont have any information on bar exam. pl help us out
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-18 03:40
Heloo helloo somebody wakeup .... mr subramanium we are waiting for a good decision .
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-18 03:42
Those who say not much nls graduates are opposing this exam bring jus 10-15 students forward if u can who are coming in to litigation we all have serious objections. All the National Law graduates are united on this issue better give atleast our licenses soon.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-18 03:46
Punjab and Haryana State bar coucil says they will not implement this bar exam if it happensis it true? M.P and Delhi have also objected, really i jus cant uderstand the bci does not have support of its own allies. what is happening ?
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 fatehpal singh 2010-07-18 05:04
also a question being raised in the Punjab and Haryan bar is that has money already been exchanged between BCI and rainmaker and if, the courts uphold pleas against bar exams , were does the money go.
Secondly will Lst offer AIBE coaching. with rainmaker running the exams.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-18 21:20
@16, 17, 18, 23, 26, 31: All you super smart, super intelligent law students/lawyers
So just because Sabeer Bhatia started Hotmail it means that he still owns it?? I hope they have a logical reasoning section in exam to filter out intelligent fools like you.
@43 Fatehpal Singh: Kindly make sure that your facts are right and well researched and not based on general rumour. Just because something is alleged doesn't mean that its true. And Legal Dodo is right, I just went through both LST and Rainmaker's website and any prudent person can figure out from there that they are in no way connected. To get better understanding, please read my comment for other people right above this one.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 fatehpal singh 2010-07-18 23:45
i asked a question,did not state any facts.
my apologies if my words came around as acquisitions or defamatory.

neither does your Anonymity guided the understanding of such a matter in the right direction.

And like i to said before a few RTIs and the courts will settle the matter.


whether Rainmaker holds stake in LST or not is a question of interest?

Will LST be offering AIBE coaching classes?

How much money has excanged hands between the BCI and Rainmaker?

If the courts rule against AIBE what happens to such money?

i hope these question are neutral and point us all in the right direction.

i bare no personal grudges with anyone in Rainmaker or BCI, i an assure you of that.

A question is a question and not a Fact.

ps: has sabeer bhatia sold his entire share in hotmail or the majority share?
it a a another question of interest.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 fatehpal singh 2010-07-19 00:04
3 member expert committee constituted by the SC which was headed by MR. Subramanium in its final report submitted to the SC said" that bar exams cannot happen without a amendment to the Advocates Act."

what caused such a sudden change in statements, even the law commission and knowledge commission have said that to conduct bar exams the advocates act must be amended.

what has caused the BCI to make such a so called perfect example of "a back door legislation" is best know to just them.

From the Hindu "http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/article444960.ece"

Also on 2nd June on the release of the vision statement Talking to journalists, Law Minister Veerappa Moily said "He said the legal profession was governed by the Advocates Act and no Bill would be possible without amending the Act."

BCI Vice-Chairman R. Dhanapal Raj and members of various State Bar Councils were present at the launch of the Vision Statement.


Every law is an evil, for every law is an infraction of liberty.
principles of Morals and Legislation, Jeremy Bentham
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-19 01:37
Sorry for interrupting between the interesting discussion going on amongst all regarding rainmaker and other topics...u may plz carry on ..jst in case if somebody can help me with my queries plz reply to my post.
- Mr. GS said that since thr will be many colleges not finished with their final semester exams by 15th June he is not keen for exams in June...But then i guess this will be the scenario even for the subsequent years...nxt june also sm might have finished with exams and some mite have not..thn how bar council is planning for a dual test schedule in a year(i guess June and December)- in case June will not be the month for subsequent BCI exams..it would be either august- september then in that case they will be ready with material before these months..only then it can be conducted...then why our batch is suffering till december.
- Further Mr. GS said that he wants 6 weeks for students to prepare from study material? can somebody plz. tell me 6 weeks from what date.....6 weeks frm september when BCI will get logistics and study material ready..or 6 weeks from the date of last examination of such college which goes last with its sem/annual exams..
if latter is the case then can anybody plz tell ven will b d last date of exam of such college...anybody...this is very important as the 6 weeks shouldnt be calculated from the date BCI overcomes its inability to provide logistics and study material that is september..BUT Convieniently from last day of exam of law school finishing last with its exams...moreover if some college is finishing its exam later then september then also June/July could have been convinient as in december there could be another round of BCI exams for such remaining law school students.
- BCI is not expected to pass the buck on enrollment committee..over years we have learned BCI heads all bar council's of the states..is it not possible for a body such as BCI to cordinate them...do we need any other efficient and powerful body in our country other then BCI ???
- Next, I am not a counsel for rainmaker(though i know Mr. Malhan )but all i would like to say is be it RAINMAKER or any other firm...if one could deliver quality services on time---go ahead...and it is not expected that a professional firm would not advise BCI about importance of proper timing of an activity.
i hope rainmaker counsels present in this discussion room would not pass the buck to BCI ..there's no point...in any case the sufferer's will be the same...be it anybody's fault..if at all its considered as a fault.

Last..i know all this has been discussed n no. of times in above post...the request would be that Mr. GS ...both of us(BCI and the Students) have the same intention of making better standard of Bar but Sir please do not mix it with ego if at all thats the case because in any case whether exams happen in december or not we'll respect you for introducing such reforms...thus please revisit the implications of supporting staunch view of conducting exams in december which is popularly considered as late as compared to previous year... in light of the Rights if any granted by statute and the Constitution.(i know some ppl present in this forum have different opinion as they believe nothing can be learnt in court in first 6 months...buddy..i know that - leave learning alone...but is there a harm or indignity to get the RIGHT on time as directed by the statute or as practised till date...and if somebody plans to argue BALANCE OF CONVIENIENCE against rights...plz quote something logical where a right can be infringed totally for greater cause..and is valid ... .)
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-19 03:33
the bar council should be shut down. it is a puppet controlled by the corrupt political parties.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-19 22:52
"I don't think students are against the exam, only against the waiting period," says solicitor general and Bar Council of India (BCI) chairman Gopal Subramanium,

WAITING PERIOD, is he joking.

someone ask him to sit home for 6 months study.

does he realize that certain student have also taken educational loans which they were planning to payback by working as lawyer and not as interns.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 fatehpal singh 2010-07-19 23:16
:-To no one will we SELL, to no one will we refuse or DELAY RIGHT or justice.


i strongly believe that in the present case of the AIBE the right is being sold of Rs.1300 and for approximately 5 month delayed.

opposing counsel your reply please!
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-20 01:08
Hi! Let me make it clear at the outset no right thinking or competent law graduates ia opposed to AIBE. The main opposition to AIBE are on two counts. Number one is the timings. i.e.the waiting period of 6-7 months for practice and number two is the discrimination with 2009-10 law graduates. If BCI and the Great Mr. GS are really serious to reform the legal profession in India then their conscience must be very clear.Ours is a democracy . Can BCI enforce a decision for which they never consulted the SBCs. If Mr .GS is really keen on imoroving the legal profession in India then why he picked the graduate passing out in 2009-10 only. Are all the law graduates passed before 2009-10 competent to practise, if they are then what is wrong with 2009-10. If BCI or Mr. GS is really serious then let he alongwith Mr/. Verappa Moily, Kapil Sibbal, Abhishek Manu Singhvi, Arun Jaitely, Venugopal first clear this exam and set a prcedence.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-20 21:09
Without getting personal and at the risk of continuing this ludicrous debate about who owns rainmaker etc.

We are questioning the competency of rainmaker. Im not sure of the role they are going to play, but to me they dont like they have much experience in litigation. How different will this exam be from college exams if they are the ones giving the input on it.

Surely the BCI has access to practicing lawyers who will do a much better job at a much (much!) lower price.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-20 23:07
It is really very thoughtful for BCI that finally it might do something regarding the quality of lawyers and as step for it has now decided to hold Bar Exams, however I am of the opinion, that as a alternative to the bar exams BCI should introduce a Continuing Professional Development (CPD) mechanism wherein state, district and city bar councils should provide training programs to its members so that they may be able to update there knowledge from pillow member or other in specialized filed like accountants or even jurists and judges or technocrats who may be able to contribute towards increase of knowledge and also may have a small test to score on basis of the training program. BCI may make it mandatory for a member to attain certain amount of points for evey 3 years there by helping members to develop professionally.

BCI should also work towards setting up a better legal complaint and complaint redressal mechanism. This are some changes that would help the entire nation and not just trouble lawyers.

And on top of all BCI should set the minimum salary or remuneration that a junior lawyer may get and should be attire based system. But I am sure BCI would never have the guts to any of it reason we all know …………………..
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-20 23:11
You are a dude. What you say makes sense and you make very valid points.

Keep it up .... not just here, but in life.
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Recommend! +0 Objection! -0 Anonymous guest 2010-07-25 04:28
What a shame...so called Rainmaker loyalists and Reformists are writting blogs anonymously...Comeout of your shell.
It is quiet evident from their acts that they donot have the courage to sit face to face even with younger ones who have not stared their profession.

They should sit infront of the media in open discussions.

My advise to students.academicians who are opposing the examination should drag them infront of the public.
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